The Election Thread

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The Election Thread

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Badger11 Beckenham 22 Nov 19 2.04pm
I don't get Labour's obsession with taxation and more importantly their solution. Back in the seventies Labour had ridiculous tax rates the rich either left for America or had clever accountants that found away around it. Thatcher cut taxes for the higher earners and the income the government received went up. To me its not the tax rate that counts but the amount the individual pays to HMRC. Rather than over complicated an already complicated tax system I would actually simplify it. Labour does not have to raise tax rates just make the better off pay what they are expected to under the current system. I wonder how many billionaires pay 45% on all their income, I doubt any? Just put these individuals in their own tax code and tell them they are is a minimum amount of tax that they have to pay e.g. £100,000.00. So it doesn't matter how clever their accountants are they have to pony up that or more. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 22 Nov 19 2.04pm

I don't get Labour's obsession with taxation and more importantly their solution. Back in the seventies Labour had ridiculous tax rates the rich either left for America or had clever accountants that found away around it.

Thatcher cut taxes for the higher earners and the income the government received went up.

To me its not the tax rate that counts but the amount the individual pays to HMRC.

Rather than over complicated an already complicated tax system I would actually simplify it. Labour does not have to raise tax rates just make the better off pay what they are expected to under the current system.

I wonder how many billionaires pay 45% on all their income, I doubt any?

Just put these individuals in their own tax code and tell them they are is a minimum amount of tax that they have to pay e.g. £100,000.00. So it doesn't matter how clever their accountants are they have to pony up that or more.

One more point

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 2.25pm
Originally posted by W12 Both myself and my wife pay a ridiclous amount of tax (she also employs 12 people who do the same) and we get pretty much nothing back for it. I pay for school for my kids and pay for all my own social/medical care other than A&E. For this we get a goverment who don't do what we vote for, a politicised police and judicioury working agsinst my interests and a government that interferes in my life at every opportunity. Most of my money goes on social care for others and mostly able bodied people that don't pay into the system. Then when I want to spend the little we have left it gets taxed again. We should get taxed much less and not more and if you think otherwise you should go and **** yourself. Edited by W12 (22 Nov 2019 1.57pm) I'd agree that taxes are already high.....though I'd probably put it a tad more diplomatically for those on the left who are genuine. Tax levels aren't my area but we can see over the pond that despite the left screaming that Trump's low tax policy was going to be a disaster that the opposite actually happened....and that he was correct....investment and jobs accelerated. I don't know if that has parallels over here but Thatcher had the same philosophy and it's notable that lower taxation for Mr and Mrs general population hasn't been popular for a long time. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 2.26pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 2.25pm

Originally posted by W12

Both myself and my wife pay a ridiclous amount of tax (she also employs 12 people who do the same) and we get pretty much nothing back for it. I pay for school for my kids and pay for all my own social/medical care other than A&E.

For this we get a goverment who don't do what we vote for, a politicised police and judicioury working agsinst my interests and a government that interferes in my life at every opportunity.

Most of my money goes on social care for others and mostly able bodied people that don't pay into the system.

Then when I want to spend the little we have left it gets taxed again.

We should get taxed much less and not more and if you think otherwise you should go and **** yourself.

Edited by W12 (22 Nov 2019 1.57pm)

I'd agree that taxes are already high.....though I'd probably put it a tad more diplomatically for those on the left who are genuine.

Tax levels aren't my area but we can see over the pond that despite the left screaming that Trump's low tax policy was going to be a disaster that the opposite actually happened....and that he was correct....investment and jobs accelerated.

I don't know if that has parallels over here but Thatcher had the same philosophy and it's notable that lower taxation for Mr and Mrs general population hasn't been popular for a long time.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 2.26pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DanH SW2 22 Nov 19 2.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'd agree that taxes are already high.....though I'd probably put it a tad more diplomatically for those on the left who are genuine. Tax levels aren't my area but we can see over the pond that despite the left screaming that Trump's low tax policy was going to be a disaster that the opposite actually happened....and that he was correct....investment and jobs accelerated. I don't know if that has parallels over here but Thatcher had the same philosophy and it's notable that lower taxation for Mr and Mrs general population hasn't been popular for a long time. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 2.26pm) This is Trump spin.

DanH

SW2 22 Nov 19 2.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'd agree that taxes are already high.....though I'd probably put it a tad more diplomatically for those on the left who are genuine.

I don't know if that has parallels over here but Thatcher had the same philosophy and it's notable that lower taxation for Mr and Mrs general population hasn't been popular for a long time.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 2.26pm)

This is Trump spin.

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 2.38pm
Originally posted by DanH This is Trump spin. Or perhaps you thinking it's 'Trump spin' is Democratic spin. I distinctly remember the Democrats predicting economic disaster. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 2.38pm

Originally posted by DanH

This is Trump spin.

Or perhaps you thinking it's 'Trump spin' is Democratic spin.

I distinctly remember the Democrats predicting economic disaster.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Deleted11 22 Nov 19 5.17pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Or perhaps you thinking it's 'Trump spin' is Democratic spin. I distinctly remember the Democrats predicting economic disaster. His tax cuts haven't been anywhere near as useful as he would make out. The US tax system is a bit different to ours, but basically the tax benefit of his cuts to those earning less than $80kish are a few hundred $ compared to the super rich. Tax will always be a bit of an issue, because, unless you have a World government, so no one can escape taxes, you will have competition between countries. I'm all for a little corporation tax as possible, but I am in favour of a wealth tax, say over £20m and possibly even a revenue tax on companies whose revenue is over £150m. Could be 2/3%. It's not so much the money that may or may not bring in but rather reducing the ability of a handful of people being able to influence our democracy.

Deleted11 22 Nov 19 5.17pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Or perhaps you thinking it's 'Trump spin' is Democratic spin.

I distinctly remember the Democrats predicting economic disaster.

His tax cuts haven't been anywhere near as useful as he would make out. The US tax system is a bit different to ours, but basically the tax benefit of his cuts to those earning less than $80kish are a few hundred $ compared to the super rich.

Tax will always be a bit of an issue, because, unless you have a World government, so no one can escape taxes, you will have competition between countries. I'm all for a little corporation tax as possible, but I am in favour of a wealth tax, say over £20m and possibly even a revenue tax on companies whose revenue is over £150m. Could be 2/3%.

It's not so much the money that may or may not bring in but rather reducing the ability of a handful of people being able to influence our democracy.

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 5.35pm
Originally posted by Jway89 His tax cuts haven't been anywhere near as useful as he would make out. The US tax system is a bit different to ours, but basically the tax benefit of his cuts to those earning less than kish are a few hundred $ compared to the super rich. That's a few hundred better than under Obama then and plus they get to have a job. Originally posted by Jway89 Tax will always be a bit of an issue, because, unless you have a World government, so no one can escape taxes, you will have competition between countries. I'm all for a little corporation tax as possible, but I am in favour of a wealth tax, say over £20m and possibly even a revenue tax on companies whose revenue is over £150m. Could be 2/3%. It isn't my area and I wouldn't disagree ethnically at something like that amount...Who really needs more than 20 million. The problem is the same as you raised. Unless it's across the world individuals could and probably would move and perhaps the nature of these corporations would change as real wealth wouldn't be in the country to run those companies taking advantage of a lower corporation tax. I don't know....Perhaps we have people more attuned who could give us a perspective. Originally posted by Jway89 It's not so much the money that may or may not bring in but rather reducing the ability of a handful of people being able to influence our democracy. I'm with you....I think something has to be done about the increasing power of corporations. Then again, you need wealth to create wealth. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 5.35pm

Originally posted by Jway89

His tax cuts haven't been anywhere near as useful as he would make out. The US tax system is a bit different to ours, but basically the tax benefit of his cuts to those earning less than kish are a few hundred $ compared to the super rich.

That's a few hundred better than under Obama then and plus they get to have a job.

Originally posted by Jway89

It isn't my area and I wouldn't disagree ethnically at something like that amount...Who really needs more than 20 million.

The problem is the same as you raised. Unless it's across the world individuals could and probably would move and perhaps the nature of these corporations would change as real wealth wouldn't be in the country to run those companies taking advantage of a lower corporation tax.

I don't know....Perhaps we have people more attuned who could give us a perspective.

Originally posted by Jway89

It's not so much the money that may or may not bring in but rather reducing the ability of a handful of people being able to influence our democracy.

I'm with you....I think something has to be done about the increasing power of corporations.

Then again, you need wealth to create wealth.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Deleted11 22 Nov 19 5.40pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'm with you....I think something has to be done about the increasing power of corporations. Then again, you need wealth to create wealth. Bit harsh on Obama. He did inheret the worst crash in 80 odd years. What about having a Government investment branch. Where they replace the investor class

Deleted11 22 Nov 19 5.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm with you....I think something has to be done about the increasing power of corporations.

Then again, you need wealth to create wealth.

Bit harsh on Obama. He did inheret the worst crash in 80 odd years.

What about having a Government investment branch. Where they replace the investor class

sickboy Deal or Croydon 22 Nov 19 6.53pm
Originally posted by Jway89 Bit harsh on Obama. He did inheret the worst crash in 80 odd years. What about having a Government investment branch. Where they replace the investor class If it's harsh on obama it's hard on every other leader/government of the time as it was a world wide crash.

sickboy

Deal or Croydon 22 Nov 19 6.53pm

Originally posted by Jway89

Bit harsh on Obama. He did inheret the worst crash in 80 odd years.

What about having a Government investment branch. Where they replace the investor class

If it's harsh on obama it's hard on every other leader/government of the time as it was a world wide crash.

cryrst The garden of England 22 Nov 19 7.15pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I don't get Labour's obsession with taxation and more importantly their solution. Back in the seventies Labour had ridiculous tax rates the rich either left for America or had clever accountants that found away around it. Thatcher cut taxes for the higher earners and the income the government received went up. To me its not the tax rate that counts but the amount the individual pays to HMRC. Rather than over complicated an already complicated tax system I would actually simplify it. Labour does not have to raise tax rates just make the better off pay what they are expected to under the current system. I wonder how many billionaires pay 45% on all their income, I doubt any? Just put these individuals in their own tax code and tell them they are is a minimum amount of tax that they have to pay e.g. £100,000.00. So it doesn't matter how clever their accountants are they have to pony up that or more. Alan sugar paid I think 54m in tax a couple of years ago. That may be only 3% of his profit/ earnings but s*** it's a load of dough. How much will he take back from the system. Probably nothing so golden goose and eggs etc.

cryrst

The garden of England 22 Nov 19 7.15pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Thatcher cut taxes for the higher earners and the income the government received went up.

To me its not the tax rate that counts but the amount the individual pays to HMRC.

I wonder how many billionaires pay 45% on all their income, I doubt any?

Alan sugar paid I think 54m in tax a couple of years ago.
That may be only 3% of his profit/ earnings but s*** it's a load of dough.
How much will he take back from the system.
Probably nothing so golden goose and eggs etc.

Midlands Eagle 22 Nov 19 7.20pm
Originally posted by cryrst Alan sugar paid I think 54m in tax a couple of years ago. That was an expensive peerage

Midlands Eagle

22 Nov 19 7.20pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Alan sugar paid I think 54m in tax a couple of years ago.

That was an expensive peerage

cryrst The garden of England 22 Nov 19 7.39pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle That was an expensive peerage I wouldn't pay 54 quid tbh honest. All true though. Imagine his ilk run away if jc makes it in. The top 5% will encompass many mid earners then.

cryrst

The garden of England 22 Nov 19 7.39pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

That was an expensive peerage

I wouldn't pay 54 quid tbh honest.
All true though.
Imagine his ilk run away if jc makes it in.
The top 5% will encompass many mid earners then.

dynamicdick Dormansland 22 Nov 19 8.01pm
Just watching The Leaders Question Time, typical BBC with a pro Corbyn audience. How the hell do they select these people? Bring back Brolin

dynamicdick

Dormansland 22 Nov 19 8.01pm

Just watching The Leaders Question Time, typical BBC with a pro Corbyn audience. How the hell do they select these people?

Bring back Brolin

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 8.13pm
Originally posted by Jway89 Bit harsh on Obama. He did inheret the worst crash in 80 odd years. What about having a Government investment branch. Where they replace the investor class I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes... I can't think of a situation he improved......He caved completely to Wall Street and the markets didn't like him and the economy was sluggish. But it was on foreign policy where he worsened all the situations.....Started by getting on his knees to Iran who rejected him but took the money.....Pulled out of Iraq before the state was ready, allowing ISIS to grow and take over......Completely failed in Syria letting Russia in....Left Trump with North Korea sending missiles into the Japanese sea. There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 8.13pm

Originally posted by Jway89

Bit harsh on Obama. He did inheret the worst crash in 80 odd years.

What about having a Government investment branch. Where they replace the investor class

I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes...

I can't think of a situation he improved......He caved completely to Wall Street and the markets didn't like him and the economy was sluggish. But it was on foreign policy where he worsened all the situations.....Started by getting on his knees to Iran who rejected him but took the money.....Pulled out of Iraq before the state was ready, allowing ISIS to grow and take over......Completely failed in Syria letting Russia in....Left Trump with North Korea sending missiles into the Japanese sea.

There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

chris123 hove actually 22 Nov 19 8.21pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes... I can't think of a situation he improved......He caved completely to Wall Street and the markets didn't like him and the economy was sluggish. But it was on foreign policy where he worsened all the situations.....Started by getting on his knees to Iran who rejected him but took the money.....Pulled out of Iraq before the state was ready, allowing ISIS to grow and take over......Completely failed in Syria letting Russia in....Left Trump with North Korea sending missiles into the Japanese sea. There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm) Got a Nobel for something.

chris123

hove actually 22 Nov 19 8.21pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes...

There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm)

Got a Nobel for something.

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 8.36pm
Originally posted by chris123 Got a Nobel for something. For turning up I think. If you were a white liberal Obama was the opportunity to genuflect like never before. Hell they did it more energetically than a North Korean at a state funeral. If they could have given him two they would. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 8.36pm

Originally posted by chris123

Got a Nobel for something.

For turning up I think.

If you were a white liberal Obama was the opportunity to genuflect like never before. Hell they did it more energetically than a North Korean at a state funeral.

If they could have given him two they would.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

sickboy Deal or Croydon 22 Nov 19 8.51pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes... I can't think of a situation he improved......He caved completely to Wall Street and the markets didn't like him and the economy was sluggish. But it was on foreign policy where he worsened all the situations.....Started by getting on his knees to Iran who rejected him but took the money.....Pulled out of Iraq before the state was ready, allowing ISIS to grow and take over......Completely failed in Syria letting Russia in....Left Trump with North Korea sending missiles into the Japanese sea. There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm) I wasn't defending him. Smoke and mirrors. Got a free pass from the left because he was a cool , skinny black guy.

sickboy

Deal or Croydon 22 Nov 19 8.51pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes...

There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm)

I wasn't defending him.
Smoke and mirrors. Got a free pass from the left because he was a cool , skinny black guy.

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 9.01pm
Originally posted by sickboy I wasn't defending him. Smoke and mirrors. Got a free pass from the left because he was a cool , skinny black guy. Yep, and married to a black man as well.....So modern. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 9.01pm

Originally posted by sickboy

I wasn't defending him.
Smoke and mirrors. Got a free pass from the left because he was a cool , skinny black guy.

Yep, and married to a black man as well.....So modern.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Deleted11 22 Nov 19 9.01pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes... I can't think of a situation he improved......He caved completely to Wall Street and the markets didn't like him and the economy was sluggish. But it was on foreign policy where he worsened all the situations.....Started by getting on his knees to Iran who rejected him but took the money.....Pulled out of Iraq before the state was ready, allowing ISIS to grow and take over......Completely failed in Syria letting Russia in....Left Trump with North Korea sending missiles into the Japanese sea. There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm) I need to state that I personally didnt really rate him either. I mean if you look at the GDP growth rate of the US, it is in large part due to their 'parliament' not being able to agree on their version of austerity and therefore not really implementing it. Obamacare was pretty much Mitt Romney's healthcare idea, so the one healthcare system he did implemeng was a republican one. Trump likes to pretty much take credit for Dow being at its all time high and how great employment is, but once you really look into it, people are working 2 or 3 jobs just to get by. I wasnt alive but one salary used to be enough for a family 60 odd years ago. If the economies of the world are so good why is it so hard to be well off?

Deleted11 22 Nov 19 9.01pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I tend to be harsh on Obama.....vastly over-rated. Good at telling jokes...

There was Obamacare, which was better for those who didn't work and far more expensive for everyone else.....I'll give him lukewarm to cold on that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 8.19pm)

I need to state that I personally didnt really rate him either. I mean if you look at the GDP growth rate of the US, it is in large part due to their 'parliament' not being able to agree on their version of austerity and therefore not really implementing it.

Obamacare was pretty much Mitt Romney's healthcare idea, so the one healthcare system he did implemeng was a republican one.

Trump likes to pretty much take credit for Dow being at its all time high and how great employment is, but once you really look into it, people are working 2 or 3 jobs just to get by. I wasnt alive but one salary used to be enough for a family 60 odd years ago. If the economies of the world are so good why is it so hard to be well off?

Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 9.14pm
Originally posted by Jway89 I need to state that I personally didnt really rate him either. I mean if you look at the GDP growth rate of the US, it is in large part due to their 'parliament' not being able to agree on their version of austerity and therefore not really implementing it. Obamacare was pretty much Mitt Romney's healthcare idea, so the one healthcare system he did implemeng was a republican one. Trump likes to pretty much take credit for Dow being at its all time high and how great employment is, but once you really look into it, people are working 2 or 3 jobs just to get by. I wasnt alive but one salary used to be enough for a family 60 odd years ago. If the economies of the world are so good why is it so hard to be well off? I'm currently listening to 'Fear' by Bob Woodward. If you ignore the bias it's obvious that Trump can be criticised for many personal failings....As a next door neighbour you'd probably prefer Obama....as long as he promised not to have BLM around. However, he's been great for their economy....I think mainly because, rightly or wrongly business trust him. The number of people on more than one job has always been a small minority of people anyway....I think it stands at 5.1 percent and has hovered around that for many years. I agree with you about the decline of the one wage family. However, I don't think that's all down to evil capitalists. Modern societies have far higher expectations and far more stuff than those of the past. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 9.29pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 9.14pm

Originally posted by Jway89

Obamacare was pretty much Mitt Romney's healthcare idea, so the one healthcare system he did implemeng was a republican one.

I'm currently listening to 'Fear' by Bob Woodward. If you ignore the bias it's obvious that Trump can be criticised for many personal failings....As a next door neighbour you'd probably prefer Obama....as long as he promised not to have BLM around.

However, he's been great for their economy....I think mainly because, rightly or wrongly business trust him.

The number of people on more than one job has always been a small minority of people anyway....I think it stands at 5.1 percent and has hovered around that for many years.

I agree with you about the decline of the one wage family. However, I don't think that's all down to evil capitalists. Modern societies have far higher expectations and far more stuff than those of the past.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 9.29pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

HKOwen Hong Kong 22 Nov 19 11.36pm
It's the BBC It's really time to dump the licence fee and change the tax payer funded luvvie left Originally posted by dynamicdick Just watching The Leaders Question Time, typical BBC with a pro Corbyn audience. How the hell do they select these people? Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

HKOwen

Hong Kong 22 Nov 19 11.36pm

It's the BBC

It's really time to dump the licence fee and change the tax payer funded luvvie left

Originally posted by dynamicdick

Just watching The Leaders Question Time, typical BBC with a pro Corbyn audience. How the hell do they select these people?

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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