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legaleagle 05 Jul 15 8.55pm
Quote TUX at 05 Jul 2015 8.03pm Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 7.47pm Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm There aren't that many other ways to look at it. They seem to think that this will give them a stronger negotiating position within the EU, when it seems for all intents and purposes that the exact opposite is true. Many will see this as a huge 'up yours' to the people who have bankrolled them for years because they couldn't control their budget, and many (Germans in particular) are sick of it. They didn't belong in the Eurozone in the first place, and, whether they choose to believe it or not, this will accelerate their exit. It was the Germans who along with the rest of the EU voted to let them in.....It was the EU who were incompetent in not realising that Greece's books were cooked.....Any idiot with any knowledge of Greece knows how badly run it is. It was largely German firms who took advantage of Greece's underdevelopment to build massive construction projects there.....Greece has been treated like a second class state.....Another entity to service the strong economies of Europe. Much of Greek's debt has been provided by the EU (whose leader is Germany (how ironic)) in the same way a crack dealer deals out crack. Budget problems were dealt with by increasing their debt......This problem is just as much a fault of the EU as it is the politicians in Greece. f*** the EU and half of what it stands for......It's helped ruin Greece.....It managed to take a bankrupt country and increase its problems many times over....draw it close to extremism and disaster than it ever has been. Now Greece kicks the ball back into the EU's half.....Throw us out and risk Italy and Spain as well.....The markets aren't stupid....Those countries are heading in the same direction.....It won't be sensible to repeat the long and expensive journey with them also......Allowing Greece to fall could allow the whole pack to fall. I'm going to be very interested in what happens next. Hardly incompetent. The bankers knew exactly what they were doing. That aside, I fully agree with the rest of your post. Will be interesting if Stirling can apply his logic (minus the anti-EU aspect) to our own banks,debts and the economic "need" for prolonged austerity.
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legaleagle

05 Jul 15 8.55pm

Quote TUX at 05 Jul 2015 8.03pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 7.47pm

Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm

There aren't that many other ways to look at it. They seem to think that this will give them a stronger negotiating position within the EU, when it seems for all intents and purposes that the exact opposite is true. Many will see this as a huge 'up yours' to the people who have bankrolled them for years because they couldn't control their budget, and many (Germans in particular) are sick of it. They didn't belong in the Eurozone in the first place, and, whether they choose to believe it or not, this will accelerate their exit.

It was the Germans who along with the rest of the EU voted to let them in.....It was the EU who were incompetent in not realising that Greece's books were cooked.....Any idiot with any knowledge of Greece knows how badly run it is.
It was largely German firms who took advantage of Greece's underdevelopment to build massive construction projects there.....Greece has been treated like a second class state.....Another entity to service the strong economies of Europe.

Much of Greek's debt has been provided by the EU (whose leader is Germany (how ironic)) in the same way a crack dealer deals out crack.

Budget problems were dealt with by increasing their debt......This problem is just as much a fault of the EU as it is the politicians in Greece.

f*** the EU and half of what it stands for......It's helped ruin Greece.....It managed to take a bankrupt country and increase its problems many times over....draw it close to extremism and disaster than it ever has been.

Now Greece kicks the ball back into the EU's half.....Throw us out and risk Italy and Spain as well.....The markets aren't stupid....Those countries are heading in the same direction.....It won't be sensible to repeat the long and expensive journey with them also......Allowing Greece to fall could allow the whole pack to fall.

I'm going to be very interested in what happens next.

Hardly incompetent. The bankers knew exactly what they were doing.
That aside, I fully agree with the rest of your post.

Will be interesting if Stirling can apply his logic (minus the anti-EU aspect) to our own banks,debts and the economic "need" for prolonged austerity.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 05 Jul 15 9.09pm
Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.28pm Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 6.40pm Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 6.37pm Looks like a no vote likely. Prepare for chaos Greece, because the Germans will not fund your public service and pension profligacy any longer. An atrocious decision from a tragically desperate and under informed electorate. They aren't under informed. Rightly or wrongly, they just don't agree with you. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jul 2015 6.41pm) The tipping point where the amount of debt payments + mounting interest payments became unsustainable passed a long time ago. Some would say that the banks are strangling the Greeks because of who is in power there... Only the clueless and paranoid. I'll take those titles The fact is, Greece is in something of a state of chaos already. 50% youth unemployment, debt at 175% of GDP and atrocious public services. These are the results of a corrupted government who the Troika willingly gave loans they knew were untenable in the long term, happy in the knowledge that Greece could pay them back with further short term loans from private banks and the EU, or from further cuts to public spending which was destroying civil society. All of a sudden the chickens have come home to roost and the EU, as they have already done once in Greece, wish to override the democratic will of the people by implementing an austerity package which serves no real purpose other than to partially reimburse private banks, who as I said were totally complicit in lending to a nation who was never realistically going to pay them back. The fact is, Greece can be cautiously optimistic about leaving the Eurozone. Despite common misconceptions, Greeks are some of the hardest working people in Europe, with the OECD finding they work around 400 hours a year more on average than Brits. Similarly, a domestic currency which they can devalue to encourage commerce would improve the competitiveness which the single currency doesn't allow. The people who are really f***ed here are the IMF, who have just lost the biggest sum in their history (thanks to their own fecklessness), the EU, which is rapidly losing credibility and authority in countries such as Spain and Italy; and Germany, who gain most out of the single currency hence their leading in the calls for fiscal austerity in Greece despite having no democratic mandate. And to be honest, I say good riddance! (or maybe I'm clueless too?) Edited by serial thriller (05 Jul 2015 9.11pm) If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 05 Jul 15 9.09pm

Send a Private Message to serial thriller

Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.28pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 6.40pm

Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 6.37pm

Looks like a no vote likely.

Prepare for chaos Greece, because the Germans will not fund your public service and pension profligacy any longer. An atrocious decision from a tragically desperate and under informed electorate.

They aren't under informed.

Rightly or wrongly, they just don't agree with you.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jul 2015 6.41pm)

The tipping point where the amount of debt payments + mounting interest payments became unsustainable passed a long time ago.

Some would say that the banks are strangling the Greeks because of who is in power there...

Only the clueless and paranoid.

I'll take those titles

The fact is, Greece is in something of a state of chaos already. 50% youth unemployment, debt at 175% of GDP and atrocious public services. These are the results of a corrupted government who the Troika willingly gave loans they knew were untenable in the long term, happy in the knowledge that Greece could pay them back with further short term loans from private banks and the EU, or from further cuts to public spending which was destroying civil society.

All of a sudden the chickens have come home to roost and the EU, as they have already done once in Greece, wish to override the democratic will of the people by implementing an austerity package which serves no real purpose other than to partially reimburse private banks, who as I said were totally complicit in lending to a nation who was never realistically going to pay them back.

The fact is, Greece can be cautiously optimistic about leaving the Eurozone. Despite common misconceptions, Greeks are some of the hardest working people in Europe, with the OECD finding they work around 400 hours a year more on average than Brits. Similarly, a domestic currency which they can devalue to encourage commerce would improve the competitiveness which the single currency doesn't allow.

The people who are really f***ed here are the IMF, who have just lost the biggest sum in their history (thanks to their own fecklessness), the EU, which is rapidly losing credibility and authority in countries such as Spain and Italy; and Germany, who gain most out of the single currency hence their leading in the calls for fiscal austerity in Greece despite having no democratic mandate.

And to be honest, I say good riddance! (or maybe I'm clueless too?)

Edited by serial thriller (05 Jul 2015 9.11pm)

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Jul 15 9.43pm
Every region voted No. This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote. Interesting times. But the people have spoken.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Jul 15 9.43pm

Every region voted No.

This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote.

Interesting times. But the people have spoken.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 05 Jul 15 9.47pm
Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 9.43pm Every region voted No. This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote. Interesting times. But the people have spoken. Hardly surprising. One of the most incredible facts from the situation is that apparently only 10% of the loans the Troika gave to Greece went to the government and the people, 90% going instead to private banks needing to pay back loans after the financial crash. I'm currently reading Establishment by Owen Jones and the parallels are incredible in Britain. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 05 Jul 15 9.47pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 9.43pm

Every region voted No.

This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote.

Interesting times. But the people have spoken.

Hardly surprising. One of the most incredible facts from the situation is that apparently only 10% of the loans the Troika gave to Greece went to the government and the people, 90% going instead to private banks needing to pay back loans after the financial crash.

I'm currently reading Establishment by Owen Jones and the parallels are incredible in Britain.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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TUX redhill 05 Jul 15 9.52pm
Quote legaleagle at 05 Jul 2015 8.55pm Quote TUX at 05 Jul 2015 8.03pm Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 7.47pm Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm There aren't that many other ways to look at it. They seem to think that this will give them a stronger negotiating position within the EU, when it seems for all intents and purposes that the exact opposite is true. Many will see this as a huge 'up yours' to the people who have bankrolled them for years because they couldn't control their budget, and many (Germans in particular) are sick of it. They didn't belong in the Eurozone in the first place, and, whether they choose to believe it or not, this will accelerate their exit. It was the Germans who along with the rest of the EU voted to let them in.....It was the EU who were incompetent in not realising that Greece's books were cooked.....Any idiot with any knowledge of Greece knows how badly run it is. It was largely German firms who took advantage of Greece's underdevelopment to build massive construction projects there.....Greece has been treated like a second class state.....Another entity to service the strong economies of Europe. Much of Greek's debt has been provided by the EU (whose leader is Germany (how ironic)) in the same way a crack dealer deals out crack. Budget problems were dealt with by increasing their debt......This problem is just as much a fault of the EU as it is the politicians in Greece. f*** the EU and half of what it stands for......It's helped ruin Greece.....It managed to take a bankrupt country and increase its problems many times over....draw it close to extremism and disaster than it ever has been. Now Greece kicks the ball back into the EU's half.....Throw us out and risk Italy and Spain as well.....The markets aren't stupid....Those countries are heading in the same direction.....It won't be sensible to repeat the long and expensive journey with them also......Allowing Greece to fall could allow the whole pack to fall. I'm going to be very interested in what happens next. Hardly incompetent. The bankers knew exactly what they were doing. That aside, I fully agree with the rest of your post. Will be interesting if Stirling can apply his logic (minus the anti-EU aspect) to our own banks,debts and the economic "need" for prolonged austerity. I'm guessing that would be way too close for comfort.
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TUX

redhill 05 Jul 15 9.52pm

Quote legaleagle at 05 Jul 2015 8.55pm

Quote TUX at 05 Jul 2015 8.03pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 7.47pm

Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm

Much of Greek's debt has been provided by the EU (whose leader is Germany (how ironic)) in the same way a crack dealer deals out crack.

Budget problems were dealt with by increasing their debt......This problem is just as much a fault of the EU as it is the politicians in Greece.

I'm going to be very interested in what happens next.

Hardly incompetent. The bankers knew exactly what they were doing.
That aside, I fully agree with the rest of your post.

Will be interesting if Stirling can apply his logic (minus the anti-EU aspect) to our own banks,debts and the economic "need" for prolonged austerity.

I'm guessing that would be way too close for comfort.

Alert a moderator to this post

ChuFukka 05 Jul 15 9.58pm
Germany's deputy chancellor has said new negotiations with Greece are "difficult to imagine" after the No vote in the referendum. Sigmar Gabriel told the Tagesspiegel newspaper: "With the rejection of the rules of the eurozone ... negotiations about a programme worth billions are barely conceivable." He said Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras and his Syriza government were "leading the Greek people on a path of bitter abandonment and hopelessness". Mr Gabriel, who is also Germany's economics minister, said Mr Tsipras had "torn down the last bridges on which Greece and Europe could have moved towards a compromise". Seems I was right about the German response. Greece are in serious, serious trouble.
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ChuFukka

05 Jul 15 9.58pm

Germany's deputy chancellor has said new negotiations with Greece are "difficult to imagine" after the No vote in the referendum.

Sigmar Gabriel told the Tagesspiegel newspaper: "With the rejection of the rules of the eurozone ... negotiations about a programme worth billions are barely conceivable."

He said Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras and his Syriza government were "leading the Greek people on a path of bitter abandonment and hopelessness".

Mr Gabriel, who is also Germany's economics minister, said Mr Tsipras had "torn down the last bridges on which Greece and Europe could have moved towards a compromise".

Seems I was right about the German response. Greece are in serious, serious trouble.

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ChuFukka 05 Jul 15 9.59pm
Quote serial thriller at 05 Jul 2015 9.09pm Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.28pm Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 6.40pm Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 6.37pm Looks like a no vote likely. Prepare for chaos Greece, because the Germans will not fund your public service and pension profligacy any longer. An atrocious decision from a tragically desperate and under informed electorate. They aren't under informed. Rightly or wrongly, they just don't agree with you. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jul 2015 6.41pm) The tipping point where the amount of debt payments + mounting interest payments became unsustainable passed a long time ago. Some would say that the banks are strangling the Greeks because of who is in power there... Only the clueless and paranoid. I'll take those titles The fact is, Greece is in something of a state of chaos already. 50% youth unemployment, debt at 175% of GDP and atrocious public services. These are the results of a corrupted government who the Troika willingly gave loans they knew were untenable in the long term, happy in the knowledge that Greece could pay them back with further short term loans from private banks and the EU, or from further cuts to public spending which was destroying civil society. All of a sudden the chickens have come home to roost and the EU, as they have already done once in Greece, wish to override the democratic will of the people by implementing an austerity package which serves no real purpose other than to partially reimburse private banks, who as I said were totally complicit in lending to a nation who was never realistically going to pay them back. The fact is, Greece can be cautiously optimistic about leaving the Eurozone. Despite common misconceptions, Greeks are some of the hardest working people in Europe, with the OECD finding they work around 400 hours a year more on average than Brits. Similarly, a domestic currency which they can devalue to encourage commerce would improve the competitiveness which the single currency doesn't allow. The people who are really f***ed here are the IMF, who have just lost the biggest sum in their history (thanks to their own fecklessness), the EU, which is rapidly losing credibility and authority in countries such as Spain and Italy; and Germany, who gain most out of the single currency hence their leading in the calls for fiscal austerity in Greece despite having no democratic mandate. And to be honest, I say good riddance! (or maybe I'm clueless too?) Edited by serial thriller (05 Jul 2015 9.11pm) Do you really believe they are being particularly targeted because of who is in power, more so than if they had elected anyone else? If not, then my comment wasn't aimed at you.
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ChuFukka

05 Jul 15 9.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 05 Jul 2015 9.09pm

Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 7.28pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 7.27pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 05 Jul 2015 6.40pm

Quote ChuFukka at 05 Jul 2015 6.37pm

Looks like a no vote likely.

Prepare for chaos Greece, because the Germans will not fund your public service and pension profligacy any longer. An atrocious decision from a tragically desperate and under informed electorate.

They aren't under informed.

Rightly or wrongly, they just don't agree with you.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jul 2015 6.41pm)

The tipping point where the amount of debt payments + mounting interest payments became unsustainable passed a long time ago.

Some would say that the banks are strangling the Greeks because of who is in power there...

Only the clueless and paranoid.

I'll take those titles

And to be honest, I say good riddance! (or maybe I'm clueless too?)

Edited by serial thriller (05 Jul 2015 9.11pm)

Do you really believe they are being particularly targeted because of who is in power, more so than if they had elected anyone else? If not, then my comment wasn't aimed at you.

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TUX redhill 05 Jul 15 10.09pm
Quote serial thriller at 05 Jul 2015 9.47pm Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 9.43pm Every region voted No. This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote. Interesting times. But the people have spoken. Hardly surprising. One of the most incredible facts from the situation is that apparently only 10% of the loans the Troika gave to Greece went to the government and the people, 90% going instead to private banks needing to pay back loans after the financial crash. I'm currently reading Establishment by Owen Jones and the parallels are incredible in Britain. The Federal Reserve, The Bank of England along with many many more are all ''private banks''. The banking system creates the booms and busts. That's how they make their money. Stability earns them nothing.
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TUX

redhill 05 Jul 15 10.09pm

Quote serial thriller at 05 Jul 2015 9.47pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 9.43pm

Every region voted No.

This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote.

Interesting times. But the people have spoken.

Hardly surprising. One of the most incredible facts from the situation is that apparently only 10% of the loans the Troika gave to Greece went to the government and the people, 90% going instead to private banks needing to pay back loans after the financial crash.

I'm currently reading Establishment by Owen Jones and the parallels are incredible in Britain.

The Federal Reserve, The Bank of England along with many many more are all ''private banks''.
The banking system creates the booms and busts. That's how they make their money.

Stability earns them nothing.

Alert a moderator to this post

rob1969 Banstead Surrey 05 Jul 15 10.32pm
Greeks just given two fingers to the EU - and Germans in particular. No love lost there normally but now the Greeks have definitely had enough. Don't know where it will end but admire their spirit.
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rob1969

Banstead Surrey 05 Jul 15 10.32pm

Greeks just given two fingers to the EU - and Germans in particular. No love lost there normally but now the Greeks have definitely had enough. Don't know where it will end but admire their spirit.

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chris123 hove actually 05 Jul 15 10.50pm
Quote TUX at 05 Jul 2015 10.09pm Quote serial thriller at 05 Jul 2015 9.47pm Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 9.43pm Every region voted No. This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote. Interesting times. But the people have spoken. Hardly surprising. One of the most incredible facts from the situation is that apparently only 10% of the loans the Troika gave to Greece went to the government and the people, 90% going instead to private banks needing to pay back loans after the financial crash. I'm currently reading Establishment by Owen Jones and the parallels are incredible in Britain. The Federal Reserve, The Bank of England along with many many more are all ''private banks''. The banking system creates the booms and busts. That's how they make their money. Stability earns them nothing. The Bank of England was nationalised just after the war and is owned by the UK Government.
Alert a moderator to this post

chris123

hove actually 05 Jul 15 10.50pm

Quote TUX at 05 Jul 2015 10.09pm

Quote serial thriller at 05 Jul 2015 9.47pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Jul 2015 9.43pm

Every region voted No.

This despite a concerted campaign from private media companies for a yes vote.

Interesting times. But the people have spoken.

I'm currently reading Establishment by Owen Jones and the parallels are incredible in Britain.

The Federal Reserve, The Bank of England along with many many more are all ''private banks''.
The banking system creates the booms and busts. That's how they make their money.

Stability earns them nothing.

The Bank of England was nationalised just after the war and is owned by the UK Government.

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 05 Jul 15 11.11pm
Quote legaleagle at 05 Jul 2015 8.55pm Will be interesting if Stirling can apply his logic (minus the anti-EU aspect) to our own banks,debts and the economic "need" for prolonged austerity. I recommend for Greece the least of a set of bad options....It's an extreme scenario...Leave the Euro, maybe the EU.....Become cheaper, increase the tourism industry, which is its strongest suit. Default....Of course it won't be able to borrow again......It will be bad for years and a lot will lose money in and out of Greece..... but its the fastest way back to a economy that can support itself. But for Britain.....We are not Greece....No need for extreme scenarios....though our debt is significant and growing. This said the British economy is amongst the richest in the world in terms of GDP. To start to gain a reputation that we aren't serious about paying back investors along the terms that they legally signed up to would be madness. The pound would start to lose its status as a safe haven.......Investors need safe havens....Countries need investors....low interest rates....Trust goes both ways. I believe in protecting the poor within society who want to work and provide for themselves and their families......The price they pay must be relatively lower than the price of those with stronger shoulders. However, we must pay our debts and run our economy properly. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Jul 15 11.11pm

Quote legaleagle at 05 Jul 2015 8.55pm

Will be interesting if Stirling can apply his logic (minus the anti-EU aspect) to our own banks,debts and the economic "need" for prolonged austerity.

I recommend for Greece the least of a set of bad options....It's an extreme scenario...Leave the Euro, maybe the EU.....Become cheaper, increase the tourism industry, which is its strongest suit.

Default....Of course it won't be able to borrow again......It will be bad for years and a lot will lose money in and out of Greece..... but its the fastest way back to a economy that can support itself.

But for Britain.....We are not Greece....No need for extreme scenarios....though our debt is significant and growing.

This said the British economy is amongst the richest in the world in terms of GDP.

To start to gain a reputation that we aren't serious about paying back investors along the terms that they legally signed up to would be madness.

The pound would start to lose its status as a safe haven.......Investors need safe havens....Countries need investors....low interest rates....Trust goes both ways.

I believe in protecting the poor within society who want to work and provide for themselves and their families......The price they pay must be relatively lower than the price of those with stronger shoulders.

However, we must pay our debts and run our economy properly.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 05 Jul 15 11.14pm
Quote rob1969 at 05 Jul 2015 10.32pm Greeks just given two fingers to the EU - and Germans in particular. No love lost there normally but now the Greeks have definitely had enough. Don't know where it will end but admire their spirit. Seconded. The birthplace of western civilization deserves better....or at least its common people do. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Jul 15 11.14pm

Quote rob1969 at 05 Jul 2015 10.32pm

Greeks just given two fingers to the EU - and Germans in particular. No love lost there normally but now the Greeks have definitely had enough. Don't know where it will end but admire their spirit.

Seconded.

The birthplace of western civilization deserves better....or at least its common people do.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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