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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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W12 02 Mar 22 3.32pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think the problem with that definition is the use of 'far right'. Anyone who knows the history of fascism knows that it started on the left. Fascism is best summed up as the 'bundle of sticks'....it's nationalism/statism mixed with socialism. Obviously in the modern day nationalism is no longer associated with the mainstream left...which is literally anti nationalist. Anyway like all movements Fascism comes in different versions.

Yes, we don't want a wider war when a nuclear exchange could literally kill all of us in the developed world.

What is happening is Cold War 2....Putin might go or he might not, but even if he does it won't change the general regime.

A problem with how the media represents things is that Russia isn't alone on the world stage....it has the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) and this idea that it can't continue just ignores all that....What is happening is literally disastrous for world cohesion.

The war drums need to go quieter and negotiations with Russia to build an acceptable peace for all parties should be the governmental and media focus.

But at the moment it's like some kind of cartoon.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Mar 2022 3.12pm)

The Nazis and the Bolsheviks were both funded by Wall Street bankers.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 3.34pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I agree entirely.

I do struggle to afford time to those whose absolute commitment to a position renders them unable to see logic or admit fault in their position when it is sufficiently countered whether that be a 'left wing nut-job' or 'right wing lunatic'.

Very much a summary of society for me these days in that there are ideological wars being raged by members on both sides who I would be inclined to think, but not fully committed to (and willing to admit it may be a very cruel statement), have failed to garner attention or find solace via their personalities or achievements in life, hence attaching and identifying themselves through no doubt somebody else's thoughts and opinions who they ultimately trust and believe in more than their own.

In this instance, I myself believe I have a healthy scepticism for both the mainstream and alternate media and choose to reach my own conclusions. In this particular situation, I do find it lunacy to invest belief in absolute truth of either Western or Eastern media/reporting/motives however struggle to bring myself to justify any war or human suffering, let alone this one.

I prefer to break it down to it's simplest component, and happy to factually state I struggle to feel to deeply for things that do not directly affect me (as I'd suggest many do), but seeing the displacement of peoples, death, panic etc. does ignite a primal instinct in me to condemn it, especially when I am very far from convinced by the reasoning behind it. A punch up at football, drunkenly in a pub etc. are not beyond me to comprehend or claim innocence from being involved in (embarrassingly I don't have a great track record with abstaining from violence in confrontations, although that was in the main as a younger man growing up in Lewisham.. and never at football) but this whole thing stinks to high heaven and any justification of it seems to be either weak or almost fictitious if not completely so.

War is, and almost always will be, an epic f**king failure on behalf of human beings.


Another good post.

Far too many good posts being written....someone should start swearing!

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 3.36pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

The Nazis and the Bolsheviks were both funded by Wall Street bankers.

Indeed.

Stick a 'w' on the start of that last word and it still accurately describes them.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 02 Mar 22 3.44pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Another good post.

Far too many good posts being written....someone should start swearing!

Argh bo**ocks!

That's the full extent of my contributions for now

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 3.48pm

Quote The mayor of the south-eastern city of Mariupol says that scores of civilians have been killed over the past 14 hours in relentless shelling of residential areas by Russian forces.

Vadym Boychenko told Ukraine's 1+1 TV Channel that Moscow's troops have also stopped civilian evacuations from the port city, preventing thousands from fleeing the battle.

"There’s been colossal destruction of residential infrastructure, there are many wounded and unfortunately many civilian dead, women, children, old people,"

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 3.54pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I agree entirely.

I do struggle to afford time to those whose absolute commitment to a position renders them unable to see logic or admit fault in their position when it is sufficiently countered whether that be a 'left wing nut-job' or 'right wing lunatic'.

Very much a summary of society for me these days in that there are ideological wars being raged by members on both sides who I would be inclined to think, but not fully committed to (and willing to admit it may be a very cruel statement), have failed to garner attention or find solace via their personalities or achievements in life, hence attaching and identifying themselves through no doubt somebody else's thoughts and opinions who they ultimately trust and believe in more than their own.

In this instance, I myself believe I have a healthy scepticism for both the mainstream and alternate media and choose to reach my own conclusions. In this particular situation, I do find it lunacy to invest belief in absolute truth of either Western or Eastern media/reporting/motives however struggle to bring myself to justify any war or human suffering, let alone this one.

I prefer to break it down to it's simplest component, and happy to factually state I struggle to feel to deeply for things that do not directly affect me (as I'd suggest many do), but seeing the displacement of peoples, death, panic etc. does ignite a primal instinct in me to condemn it, especially when I am very far from convinced by the reasoning behind it. A punch up at football, drunkenly in a pub etc. are not beyond me to comprehend or claim innocence from being involved in (embarrassingly I don't have a great track record with abstaining from violence in confrontations, although that was in the main as a younger man growing up in Lewisham.. and never at football) but this whole thing stinks to high heaven and any justification of it seems to be either weak or almost fictitious if not completely so.

War is, and almost always will be, an epic f**king failure on behalf of human beings.

Yes, it's hard to disagree with any of this. Good post. It's a good idea to have a certain level of detachment and a more local outlook really, and it's not healthy to get too invested in things are that outside of personal control. Again though, as you say, where there is genuine human suffering it's natural to put yourself in the shoes of those people and empathise with the horrors they are facing. Any underplaying of such suffering is unfortunate, as we are not watching the most nuanced of situations pan out, militarily speaking at least.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 02 Mar 22 4.32pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

Russell Brand! Seriously?

And Lily Allen.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 02 Mar 22 4.48pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep, I'd say give him a few listens before judgement.

Obviously on the left but not a supporter of the establishment.

I haven't heard his take on the war though, I should imagine it's balanced and I'll get to it....mostly listened to Academic Agent on the war so far.

I think your account has been hacked by Nick Gussett.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 4.55pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

I think your account has been hacked by Nick Gussett.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 02 Mar 22 5.03pm

5 years ago

Attachment: trim.DADF0A7A-A19C-4422-9F8A-F35BE4D5624C.MOV (5,755.07Kb)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 5.06pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

5 years ago

Intelligent chap.

Just the type of guy who doesn't get the the top nowadays.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 02 Mar 22 5.39pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Yes, he would.

The difference would be in the response.

Trump admires, even envies, Putin. His America First agenda and lack of appetite for Nato (and the UN) means he would have been reluctant to commit to supporting Ukraine, seeing it as within Russia's sphere of influence and a European rather than an American problem.

The divisions in the USA that Trump has exacerbated, especially following the refusal to accept the election result, has weakened the country. Putin not only knows this, he was partly instrumental in creating it.

So he would have still invaded under a pretext but not faced the same degree of international resolve to ostracise. Trump would not have joined in with the financial sanctions, and would have resisted the strengthening of Nato force in Eastern Europe.

Exactly but I doubt the conversation would have included who's next as it would categorically been no one !

 

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