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The Election Thread
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 05 Dec 19 5.55pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Never thought I’d be discussing JLO lyrics in a political exchange but here we go I interpret the lyrics more of a cultural belonging than any sort of monetary claim - she’s not claiming to be a socialist is she, just saying that despite her success, she still feels her home is ‘the block’ - I think a lot of people can relate to that, myself included. I also think you conflate having left-leaning tendencies with being a full blown socialist far too readily - my own experience is that there is only a relatively small minority of people who believe in pure socialism, and most just feel the scale has shifted too far one way. I possibly agreed with you until, ‘She’s saying that despite her success, she still feels her home is ‘the block’ - I think a lot of people can relate to that, myself included.’ I think ‘I’m still Hispanic Jenny but the way I live, think and the people I mix with are from the Hills and very much not the block I was desperate to get out of’ might be more accurate. But the lyrics were cute while she was dating Ben Affleck or whichever celebrity circle she was socialising in and nobody from the block. Not that I blame her at all. Pop music is another ruthless industry where getting kids’ dollars in those few years are all up for grabs and any adult who buys most of it for any message rather than a dance is a fool. Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Dec 2019 6.00pm)
COYP |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 05 Dec 19 6.17pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I possibly agreed with you until, ‘She’s saying that despite her success, she still feels her home is ‘the block’ - I think a lot of people can relate to that, myself included.’ I think ‘I’m still Hispanic Jenny but the way I live, think and the people I mix with are from the Hills and very much not the block I was desperate to get out of’ might be more accurate. But the lyrics were cute while she was dating Ben Affleck or whichever celebrity circle she was socialising in and nobody from the block. Not that I blame her at all. Pop music is another ruthless industry where getting kids’ dollars in those few years are all up for grabs and any adult who buys most of it for any message rather than a dance is a fool. Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Dec 2019 6.00pm) Well you are guessing how and what she thinks, and indeed to some extent who she mixes with. As I said, it’s a position I can personally relate to, so I don’t see it as that unrealistic - I’ve had a relatively successful few years, financially am better of than most of those I grew up with and around, but still culturally consider the s***hole parts of Norbury and Thornton Heath where I was raised to be ‘where I’m from’ and I certainly feel more at home there than I would in an affluent area. Anyway, probably as much analysis as can be done from the chorus of Jenny from the block.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Dec 19 6.33pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Well you are guessing how and what she thinks, and indeed to some extent who she mixes with. As I said, it’s a position I can personally relate to, so I don’t see it as that unrealistic - I’ve had a relatively successful few years, financially am better of than most of those I grew up with and around, but still culturally consider the s***hole parts of Norbury and Thornton Heath where I was raised to be ‘where I’m from’ and I certainly feel more at home there than I would in an affluent area. Anyway, probably as much analysis as can be done from the chorus of Jenny from the block. I get you, and ‘I’m from....’ can mean exactly just that but obviously in the case of JLO it means more. She feels comfortable now in celebrity or showbiz circles. I’d be very surprised if she felt more comfortable in the block than the hills. Actually I’d be surprised if you did, meaning you may not be made to feel welcome after you thought might/would from experience of your past. But yes, it’s a dance track of nonsense in an election thread for serious discussion and casual slinging matches.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 19 6.38pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Well you are guessing how and what she thinks, and indeed to some extent who she mixes with. As I said, it’s a position I can personally relate to, so I don’t see it as that unrealistic - I’ve had a relatively successful few years, financially am better of than most of those I grew up with and around, but still culturally consider the s***hole parts of Norbury and Thornton Heath where I was raised to be ‘where I’m from’ and I certainly feel more at home there than I would in an affluent area. Anyway, probably as much analysis as can be done from the chorus of Jenny from the block.
If you do already then much respect.....Otherwise like Jenny....You aren't from the block...You were from the block and just enjoy your cake. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 6.39pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 19 6.45pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I get you, and ‘I’m from....’ can mean exactly just that but obviously in the case of JLO it means more. She feels comfortable now in celebrity or showbiz circles. I’d be very surprised if she felt more comfortable in the block than the hills. Actually I’d be surprised if you did, meaning you may not be made to feel welcome after you thought might/would from experience of your past. But yes, it’s a dance track of nonsense in an election thread for serious discussion and casual slinging matches.
It's almost as amusing a song as Price Tag by Jessie J. Commercial hippyism for the middle and working class who don't think too deeply. A principle you won't suffer for isn't a principle at all. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2019 6.46pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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cryrst  The garden of England 05 Dec 19 7.22pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
The 70s. I stopped reading after that. You would wouldn't you.
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 05 Dec 19 8.43pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
You would wouldn't you. No brah But attempting to use an emotional argument based on events from half a century ago and then transplanting them into a debate about now to use as some form of equivalence is illogical and absurd Hence why I stopped at the ‘70s’. I’m fully aware as a comfortably higher rate taxpayer that I would need to pay more. I’ve already made my stance on this clear re. Taxation increase for the higher end. Yeah I’ll have less disposable, but so long as that money gets used where it’s needed then I am prepared to deal with it (unlikely, but my point stands). Your arguments are tired, emotional and cliched, but you’re entitled to them. What I really dislike is central London living business owners with multi million pound turnovers complaining about being taxed more when they send both their kids to private school and pay for private healthcare. Then have the cheek to insinuate they’re doing the state a favour by doing so and should get some sort of rebate. Go to another country where you can abuse the system. Not wanted. It is not I that needs to do more research.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Dec 19 9.24pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
No brah But attempting to use an emotional argument based on events from half a century ago and then transplanting them into a debate about now to use as some form of equivalence is illogical and absurd Hence why I stopped at the ‘70s’. I’m fully aware as a comfortably higher rate taxpayer that I would need to pay more. I’ve already made my stance on this clear re. Taxation increase for the higher end. Yeah I’ll have less disposable, but so long as that money gets used where it’s needed then I am prepared to deal with it (unlikely, but my point stands). Your arguments are tired, emotional and cliched, but you’re entitled to them. What I really dislike is central London living business owners with multi million pound turnovers complaining about being taxed more when they send both their kids to private school and pay for private healthcare. Then have the cheek to insinuate they’re doing the state a favour by doing so and should get some sort of rebate. Go to another country where you can abuse the system. Not wanted. It is not I that needs to do more research. Specifically what is unlikely? That it’ll get used where it’s needed? What if it gets used where it’s not needed or ends up being used to pay a growing debt bill? I don’t disagree with you btw. As soon as I could without being short at the end of the month I donated to Action Aid because those kids really have nothing. I’m just curious if it does go where it’s needed, or a lot of it wasted. Britain had to go through austerity in 2010, even the Lib Dem’s saw it had to. Since then in the last few years more spending should have happened, but to Corbyn’s levels brings back all those concerns that became reality even at the end of Bliar and Brown’s successful economic period, even if it was during historically low interest rates rippling over from the USA after 9/11. Eventually you’ll get your wish. Maybe in 5,10,15,20 years, and possibly not taxed a little more but a lot lot more. Will produce a tut and an eye roll.
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| davenotamonkey 06 Dec 19 12.49am |
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Watch. Them. Squirm.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 06 Dec 19 7.57am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah, it's a bit painful because the Labour Party thinks of itself a certain way and those holding the signs buy into it. I've seen lefty activists do this the opposite way around.....so I will say that these edited 'gotchas' can be a bit unfair as it isn't dealing with the better brains. That said, if what that guy was saying is accurate then it's pretty spicy......What's very clear is that Corbyn never thought he'd lead the Labour party. Very funny classic ambush I'm sure that The Labour party could find a Boris quote and tell Tories Corbyn said it. There is a valid point though, Labour sees racism everywhere except in its own party. 70 plus Labour officials have given written statements to the Uman Rights commission it's not one disgruntled employee. I fully expect the commission report when it arrives to damn Labour unequivocally but by then with any luck Corbyn will be gone.
One more point |
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| Midlands Eagle 06 Dec 19 8.03am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Labour sees racism everywhere except in its own party. 70 plus Labour officials have given written statements to the Uman Rights commission it's not one disgruntled employee. I fully expect the commission report when it arrives to damn Labour unequivocally but by then with any luck Corbyn will be gone. I was listening to a senior Jewish bloke on the radio a couple of weeks ago and he was saying that the problem isn't with the Labour Party but with it's leadership so things should improve in a couple of weeks time after Corbyn has resigned
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| Badger11 Beckenham 06 Dec 19 8.30am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I was listening to a senior Jewish bloke on the radio a couple of weeks ago and he was saying that the problem isn't with the Labour Party but with it's leadership so things should improve in a couple of weeks time after Corbyn has resigned I hope your are correct although it appears that Corbyn is building a power base if not for him but his chosen successor. The moderates in the Labour party have a fight on their hands worse than when Kinnock fought off the Militant tendency. Momentum are embedded and not going anywhere. Let's hope I am wrong we need a moderate centre left Labour party to keep the Tories honest.
One more point |
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berlinpalace  berlin 06 Dec 19 12.31pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I hope your are correct although it appears that Corbyn is building a power base if not for him but his chosen successor. The moderates in the Labour party have a fight on their hands worse than when Kinnock fought off the Militant tendency. Momentum are embedded and not going anywhere. Let's hope I am wrong we need a moderate centre left Labour party to keep the Tories honest. ‘...keep the Tories honest,’
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 06 Dec 19 1.12pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Genuine question; how does one become so loyal to a party that they will defend the party line, without question or challenge, on any issue across the board? I’ve never come close to feeling like that. Do you not disagree with the Tories on anything? Do you have to pretend Boris is honest and trustworthy to justify voting for them? This an excellent point...my way of thinking is that whatever may be wrong with the Tories offering and there are a few; Boris's lack of attention to detail being one, is still a drop in the Ocean compared to what a Corbyn Marxist Government would bring. It's by no means Tory perfect but the alternative is I must say frightening.
Bring back Brolin |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 06 Dec 19 1.18pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Specifically what is unlikely? That it’ll get used where it’s needed? What if it gets used where it’s not needed or ends up being used to pay a growing debt bill? I don’t disagree with you btw. As soon as I could without being short at the end of the month I donated to Action Aid because those kids really have nothing. I’m just curious if it does go where it’s needed, or a lot of it wasted. Britain had to go through austerity in 2010, even the Lib Dem’s saw it had to. Since then in the last few years more spending should have happened, but to Corbyn’s levels brings back all those concerns that became reality even at the end of Bliar and Brown’s successful economic period, even if it was during historically low interest rates rippling over from the USA after 9/11. Eventually you’ll get your wish. Maybe in 5,10,15,20 years, and possibly not taxed a little more but a lot lot more. Will produce a tut and an eye roll. Re. Unlikely – yes. Re. NGOs and corporate charities, I avoid them like the plague. I donate monthly to an independent, local homeless organisation who has been going since 1976 (the 70s, ha). Croydon Night Watch. Volunteer run. Ever since reading the book 'War Games' which I highly recommend, I've taken a dim view of any NGO, or any large corporate charity organisation. I'd rather put my money back into the area I'm in to help support the local community. Re. Austerity, the jury is still out on whether the extreme level of cutbacks were needed. Not that none were needed, but the depth and breadth, plus those that it targeted is questionable. As for my 'wish' – I have no wish really, in relation to this. Just pointing out that Pure Socialism being implemented in this country is near impossible. Socialism lite is probably as close as you'll get. Along with the fact that as a higher rate taxpayer I see no issue with paying more tax, within reason. And the plans floating about in my opinion are within reason. Millionaires whine about it but put it this way, you've been getting away with avoidance and tax rates that are lower than they should be for years. That can only continue for so long. Finally, all the scaremongering around hyper tax – there is a threshold where it becomes economically damaging, a balance will always have to be struck. Labour will not cut their nose off to spite their own face, otherwise they will be out of power quick sharp. It's not a dictatorship that will last for 50 years. Edited by SW19 CPFC (06 Dec 2019 1.19pm)
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 06 Dec 19 1.18pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I hope your are correct although it appears that Corbyn is building a power base if not for him but his chosen successor. The moderates in the Labour party have a fight on their hands worse than when Kinnock fought off the Militant tendency. Momentum are embedded and not going anywhere. Let's hope I am wrong we need a moderate centre left Labour party to keep the Tories honest. If this time round there was a centre Labour party such as when Blair was leader we could be seeing a Labour win. I remember speaking to a friend right after he was elected first time and without being asked she said that she normally voted Tory but felt that it was right for a change. This is how some people vote. Thing is you have to look beyond that and think what will change bring. Charlton fans forced a change with Curbishley as they wanted to go in a different direction...the rest is History as they say!!
Bring back Brolin |
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 06 Dec 19 1.28pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Re. Unlikely – yes. Re. NGOs and corporate charities, I avoid them like the plague. I donate monthly to an independent, local homeless organisation who has been going since 1976 (the 70s, ha). Croydon Night Watch. Volunteer run. Ever since reading the book 'War Games' which I highly recommend, I've taken a dim view of any NGO, or any large corporate charity organisation. I'd rather put my money back into the area I'm in to help support the local community. Re. Austerity, the jury is still out on whether the extreme level of cutbacks were needed. Not that none were needed, but the depth and breadth, plus those that it targeted is questionable. As for my 'wish' – I have no wish really, in relation to this. Just pointing out that Pure Socialism being implemented in this country is near impossible. Socialism lite is probably as close as you'll get. Along with the fact that as a higher rate taxpayer I see no issue with paying more tax, within reason. And the plans floating about in my opinion are within reason. Millionaires whine about it but put it this way, you've been getting away with avoidance and tax rates that are lower than they should be for years. That can only continue for so long. Finally, all the scaremongering around hyper tax – there is a threshold where it becomes economically damaging, a balance will always have to be struck. Labour will not cut their nose off to spite their own face, otherwise they will be out of power quick sharp. It's not a dictatorship that will last for 50 years. Edited by SW19 CPFC (06 Dec 2019 1.19pm) Just a moment on austerity...as Rudi said it had to be done but the pain should have been shared by others and in a more privileged position, correct me if I am wrong but didn't the MP's vote themselves a pay rise or two during this period. There were others for sure who should have set an example. Boris has now said that it was wrong. No Boris it was right but it was the balance that was out and you will end it. Saying something like that about the past and with it such an emotive subject to many it directly affected and comes across as simply 'words for votes' but then again he's a Politician and its a General Election. Whereas Corbyn saying that his Government would repay the WASPY £58Bn goes many stages further especially when its not in his manifesto!
Bring back Brolin |
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 06 Dec 19 1.30pm |
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Originally posted by berlinpalace
‘...keep the Tories honest,’ He's a Politician of course he is honest!!
Bring back Brolin |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Dec 19 2.20pm |
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Originally posted by berlinpalace
‘...keep the Tories honest,’ Errr...on public spending, which is what matters.....I believe the Labour manifesto was costed at £73 billion and the Tories at £2.9 billion. And that was before McDonald's pension commitment....which was what, 58 billion extra. So when it comes to lies that matter....it's off the scale.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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