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Why is this a BBC top story? (LOCKED)


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 01 Mar 20 10.26pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And the upside is what exactly? Apart from the number of children being abused being potentially reduced.


Anything that helps and not hinders has to be a positive and therefore worthwhile. Surely if more people within the Islamic communities feel able to help and that speeds up detection and conviction we really ought to be following that path?

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 01 Mar 20 10.34pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Not stigmatising anyone and a reluctance to investigate are the same policy as that which has created the problem.


I disagree. Stigmatising whole communities helps no-one.

If there really was a reluctance to investigate then that would be a genuine reason for concern but I don't actually think that's likely to be true. More likely is that the scale of the problem wasn't understood and some conclusions drawn that now look, with hindsight, to have been incorrect. That the Police investigated quietly and under the radar is not to not investigate. It is determining a strategy which was believed to be the most effective.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 01 Mar 20 10.36pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Anything that helps and not hinders has to be a positive and therefore worthwhile. Surely if more people within the Islamic communities feel able to help and that speeds up detection and conviction we really ought to be following that path?

But there’s no guarantee that’s going to happen. What should be done if the situation hasn’t improved in twenty years? This approach has patently failed fin the past so what’s changed?

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 01 Mar 20 10.37pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Anything that helps and not hinders has to be a positive and therefore worthwhile. Surely if more people within the Islamic communities feel able to help and that speeds up detection and conviction we really ought to be following that path?

At last you get it.
The point is none, or very few do.
I asked before if you thought families and friends know and knew about grooming.
I think I would guess a big yes.
Why would they not want to protect young girls?
Either they are frightened or even sicker is that they too see the victims as pieces of meat who deserve it because they are.......

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 01 Mar 20 10.41pm

If this is proved to be the case how many will be arrested and charged with assisting an offender.
It wasnt that long ago that an MP was sent down for lying about a speeding ticket.
In the bigger picture I feel this is quite minor.
Correct yes but if it isnt going to be reciprocated across all crimes then just what is the point.

 

Teddy Eagle Flag 01 Mar 20 10.42pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I disagree. Stigmatising whole communities helps no-one.

If there really was a reluctance to investigate then that would be a genuine reason for concern but I don't actually think that's likely to be true. More likely is that the scale of the problem wasn't understood and some conclusions drawn that now look, with hindsight, to have been incorrect. That the Police investigated quietly and under the radar is not to not investigate. It is determining a strategy which was believed to be the most effective.

Arresting criminals isn’t stigmatising a whole community. The decisions taken then were incorrect but that policy is the one being advocated.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Mar 20 8.29am

Some more on the Transitioning court case.

[Link]

""In 2009/10, 40 girls under 18 were referred to doctors for gender treatment in England.

By 2017/18, the number had soared to 1,806. Over the same period, annual referrals for boys increased from 57 to 713. ""

 


One more point

Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Mar 20 8.43am

Originally posted by Badger11

Some more on the Transitioning court case.

This is an intriguing case as she is suing the NHS for doing what she asked them to do.

The other interesting aspect is that in nothing that I have read has there been any mention of her parents and what part they played in this.

It is cases like this and the many thousands of other supposed malpractice lawsuits that has caused the cost of funding the NHS to skyrocket.

My wife is a part time nurse who fills in the rest of her allocated hours as a pen pusher recording every single action that she has taken in case of possible lawsuits further down the line

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Mar 20 8.59am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

This is an intriguing case as she is suing the NHS for doing what she asked them to do.

The other interesting aspect is that in nothing that I have read has there been any mention of her parents and what part they played in this.

It is cases like this and the many thousands of other supposed malpractice lawsuits that has caused the cost of funding the NHS to skyrocket.

My wife is a part time nurse who fills in the rest of her allocated hours as a pen pusher recording every single action that she has taken in case of possible lawsuits further down the line

I agree and I am not solely blaming the NHS but at this clinic there appears to be a default position to provide treatment. A doctor wouldn't cut your leg off just because you asked them to.

The huge increase in numbers suggest that something is wrong.

 


One more point

Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 20 9.08am

The culture within all our institutions is 'progressive' and based less on reason and more on empathy.

So while this case is tragic it's also important. It displays the insanity that modern day professionals go along with.

You have the activists and then you have the 'go along to get along'....who are just paying the mortgage.

Ultimately It's all about who has been appointed in leadership positions......where the buck stops.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Mar 2020 9.10am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Mar 20 9.31am

Originally posted by cryrst

At last you get it.
The point is none, or very few do.
I asked before if you thought families and friends know and knew about grooming.
I think I would guess a big yes.
Why would they not want to protect young girls?
Either they are frightened or even sicker is that they too see the victims as pieces of meat who deserve it because they are.......

I have always "got it" but maybe you have only just understood that.

What you say isn't actually true. Only today this report in the helps to explain why:-

[Link]

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Mar 20 9.37am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But there’s no guarantee that’s going to happen. What should be done if the situation hasn’t improved in twenty years? This approach has patently failed fin the past so what’s changed?

You too should read this report which is on the BBC website today. It concerns the "Prevent" initiative and the responses of various communities to it. It shows that things ARE being done and that the approach is regarded well within the Muslim community, albeit with some reservations and recommendations on how to improve it. It's not all doom and gloom and my own suggestion, to stop using a blanket description when referring to the "grooming gangs", seems to me to be a sensible supportive step. Let's see if that is an outcome:-

[Link]

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Mar 20 9.40am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Arresting criminals isn’t stigmatising a whole community. The decisions taken then were incorrect but that policy is the one being advocated.

It's not the arrest of the criminals that is doing any stigmatisation. It's the use of "Muslim" or "Islamic" in the way the way the grooming gangs" are described in the media, both written, broadcast and online.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 02 Mar 20 9.57am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's not the arrest of the criminals that is doing any stigmatisation. It's the use of "Muslim" or "Islamic" in the way the way the grooming gangs" are described in the media, both written, broadcast and online.

Given that the reasons these people consider young white girls as acceptable targets are determined by their interpretation of their faith, it is entirely appropriate to attach descriptors such as those.

To not do so is to deliberately deflect from the reality of the situation.


Edited by palace_in_frogland (02 Mar 2020 9.59am)

 

Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Mar 20 10.00am

Originally posted by Badger11


I agree and I am not solely blaming the NHS but at this clinic there appears to be a default position to provide treatment. A doctor wouldn't cut your leg off just because you asked them to.

The huge increase in numbers suggest that something is wrong.

I saw a woman from a gender reassignment charity being interviewed and she said that if the outcome of this case would be to stop gender re-assignment treatment for anyone under 18 it would probably result in a large increase in suicides

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Mar 20 10.06am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I saw a woman from a gender reassignment charity being interviewed and she said that if the outcome of this case would be to stop gender re-assignment treatment for anyone under 18 it would probably result in a large increase in suicides


Many so called charities are actually protest groups I haven't seen the interview but I have heard others and they are not open to the possibility that someone may need to wait and undergo counselling.

 


One more point

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Mar 20 6.18pm

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

Given that the reasons these people consider young white girls as acceptable targets are determined by their interpretation of their faith, it is entirely appropriate to attach descriptors such as those.

To not do so is to deliberately deflect from the reality of the situation.


Edited by palace_in_frogland (02 Mar 2020 9.59am)

No it isn't "entirely appropriate"!

"These people" are evil criminals who deserve all the condemnation it is possible to make.

That they might try to justify what they do because of a particular interpretation of their faith doesn't mean that their faith is at fault and certainly not that all who hold it are culpable.

By describing the gangs as "Muslim" or "Islamic" is to play straight into the hands of those who wish to portray the Islamic community as under attack and to radicalise it even more than it is now.

We need to be wiser and more restrained and not allow ourselves to be goaded by evil men who seek to destroy our culture. Knee jerk reactions are rarely sensible and this one has been going on for a long time.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Mar 20 6.36pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's not the arrest of the criminals that is doing any stigmatisation. It's the use of "Muslim" or "Islamic" in the way the way the grooming gangs" are described in the media, both written, broadcast and online.

But, as has been pointed out many times, that is their background.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Mar 20 8.06pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No it isn't "entirely appropriate"!

"These people" are evil criminals who deserve all the condemnation it is possible to make.

That they might try to justify what they do because of a particular interpretation of their faith doesn't mean that their faith is at fault and certainly not that all who hold it are culpable.

By describing the gangs as "Muslim" or "Islamic" is to play straight into the hands of those who wish to portray the Islamic community as under attack and to radicalise it even more than it is now.

We need to be wiser and more restrained and not allow ourselves to be goaded by evil men who seek to destroy our culture. Knee jerk reactions are rarely sensible and this one has been going on for a long time.

Are you sure?
People indoctrinated with dangerous nonsense are not a concern to you? Despite the evidence about the behaviour of a significant number of them?

Is it really logical to say that their religion is not a problem because the majority are law abiding?
How many have to become criminals before it becomes a problem for you?

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Mar 20 8.30pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But, as has been pointed out many times, that is their background.

And, as I have pointed out many times, not all, or indeed many, from that background are involved.

Just ask your self this. How would all Christians, of every denomination, feel if the hate filled activities of the Westboro Baptist Church were simply described as being by a "Christian hate group"?

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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