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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
And the upside is what exactly? Apart from the number of children being abused being potentially reduced. Anything that helps and not hinders has to be a positive and therefore worthwhile. Surely if more people within the Islamic communities feel able to help and that speeds up detection and conviction we really ought to be following that path?
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Not stigmatising anyone and a reluctance to investigate are the same policy as that which has created the problem. I disagree. Stigmatising whole communities helps no-one. If there really was a reluctance to investigate then that would be a genuine reason for concern but I don't actually think that's likely to be true. More likely is that the scale of the problem wasn't understood and some conclusions drawn that now look, with hindsight, to have been incorrect. That the Police investigated quietly and under the radar is not to not investigate. It is determining a strategy which was believed to be the most effective.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Anything that helps and not hinders has to be a positive and therefore worthwhile. Surely if more people within the Islamic communities feel able to help and that speeds up detection and conviction we really ought to be following that path? But there’s no guarantee that’s going to happen. What should be done if the situation hasn’t improved in twenty years? This approach has patently failed fin the past so what’s changed?
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Anything that helps and not hinders has to be a positive and therefore worthwhile. Surely if more people within the Islamic communities feel able to help and that speeds up detection and conviction we really ought to be following that path? At last you get it.
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I disagree. Stigmatising whole communities helps no-one. If there really was a reluctance to investigate then that would be a genuine reason for concern but I don't actually think that's likely to be true. More likely is that the scale of the problem wasn't understood and some conclusions drawn that now look, with hindsight, to have been incorrect. That the Police investigated quietly and under the radar is not to not investigate. It is determining a strategy which was believed to be the most effective. Arresting criminals isn’t stigmatising a whole community. The decisions taken then were incorrect but that policy is the one being advocated.
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Originally posted by Badger11
Some more on the Transitioning court case. This is an intriguing case as she is suing the NHS for doing what she asked them to do. The other interesting aspect is that in nothing that I have read has there been any mention of her parents and what part they played in this. It is cases like this and the many thousands of other supposed malpractice lawsuits that has caused the cost of funding the NHS to skyrocket. My wife is a part time nurse who fills in the rest of her allocated hours as a pen pusher recording every single action that she has taken in case of possible lawsuits further down the line
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
This is an intriguing case as she is suing the NHS for doing what she asked them to do. The other interesting aspect is that in nothing that I have read has there been any mention of her parents and what part they played in this. It is cases like this and the many thousands of other supposed malpractice lawsuits that has caused the cost of funding the NHS to skyrocket. My wife is a part time nurse who fills in the rest of her allocated hours as a pen pusher recording every single action that she has taken in case of possible lawsuits further down the line I agree and I am not solely blaming the NHS but at this clinic there appears to be a default position to provide treatment. A doctor wouldn't cut your leg off just because you asked them to. The huge increase in numbers suggest that something is wrong.
One more point |
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Originally posted by cryrst
At last you get it. I have always "got it" but maybe you have only just understood that. What you say isn't actually true. Only today this report in the helps to explain why:-
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But there’s no guarantee that’s going to happen. What should be done if the situation hasn’t improved in twenty years? This approach has patently failed fin the past so what’s changed? You too should read this report which is on the BBC website today. It concerns the "Prevent" initiative and the responses of various communities to it. It shows that things ARE being done and that the approach is regarded well within the Muslim community, albeit with some reservations and recommendations on how to improve it. It's not all doom and gloom and my own suggestion, to stop using a blanket description when referring to the "grooming gangs", seems to me to be a sensible supportive step. Let's see if that is an outcome:-
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Arresting criminals isn’t stigmatising a whole community. The decisions taken then were incorrect but that policy is the one being advocated. It's not the arrest of the criminals that is doing any stigmatisation. It's the use of "Muslim" or "Islamic" in the way the way the grooming gangs" are described in the media, both written, broadcast and online.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's not the arrest of the criminals that is doing any stigmatisation. It's the use of "Muslim" or "Islamic" in the way the way the grooming gangs" are described in the media, both written, broadcast and online. Given that the reasons these people consider young white girls as acceptable targets are determined by their interpretation of their faith, it is entirely appropriate to attach descriptors such as those. To not do so is to deliberately deflect from the reality of the situation.
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Originally posted by Badger11
The huge increase in numbers suggest that something is wrong. I saw a woman from a gender reassignment charity being interviewed and she said that if the outcome of this case would be to stop gender re-assignment treatment for anyone under 18 it would probably result in a large increase in suicides
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I saw a woman from a gender reassignment charity being interviewed and she said that if the outcome of this case would be to stop gender re-assignment treatment for anyone under 18 it would probably result in a large increase in suicides
One more point |
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Originally posted by palace_in_frogland
Given that the reasons these people consider young white girls as acceptable targets are determined by their interpretation of their faith, it is entirely appropriate to attach descriptors such as those. To not do so is to deliberately deflect from the reality of the situation.
No it isn't "entirely appropriate"! "These people" are evil criminals who deserve all the condemnation it is possible to make. That they might try to justify what they do because of a particular interpretation of their faith doesn't mean that their faith is at fault and certainly not that all who hold it are culpable. By describing the gangs as "Muslim" or "Islamic" is to play straight into the hands of those who wish to portray the Islamic community as under attack and to radicalise it even more than it is now. We need to be wiser and more restrained and not allow ourselves to be goaded by evil men who seek to destroy our culture. Knee jerk reactions are rarely sensible and this one has been going on for a long time.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It's not the arrest of the criminals that is doing any stigmatisation. It's the use of "Muslim" or "Islamic" in the way the way the grooming gangs" are described in the media, both written, broadcast and online. But, as has been pointed out many times, that is their background.
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No it isn't "entirely appropriate"! "These people" are evil criminals who deserve all the condemnation it is possible to make. That they might try to justify what they do because of a particular interpretation of their faith doesn't mean that their faith is at fault and certainly not that all who hold it are culpable. By describing the gangs as "Muslim" or "Islamic" is to play straight into the hands of those who wish to portray the Islamic community as under attack and to radicalise it even more than it is now. We need to be wiser and more restrained and not allow ourselves to be goaded by evil men who seek to destroy our culture. Knee jerk reactions are rarely sensible and this one has been going on for a long time. Are you sure? Is it really logical to say that their religion is not a problem because the majority are law abiding?
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But, as has been pointed out many times, that is their background. And, as I have pointed out many times, not all, or indeed many, from that background are involved. Just ask your self this. How would all Christians, of every denomination, feel if the hate filled activities of the Westboro Baptist Church were simply described as being by a "Christian hate group"?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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