This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Election Thread
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
 Stirlingsays  06 Dec 19 3.16pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Badger11
I hope your are correct although it appears that Corbyn is building a power base if not for him but his chosen successor. The moderates in the Labour party have a fight on their hands worse than when Kinnock fought off the Militant tendency. Momentum are embedded and not going anywhere. Let's hope I am wrong we need a moderate centre left Labour party to keep the Tories honest. Yep, this is the actual reality of it. Corbyn and McDonald are less interested in national power than they were root and branch embedding the far left into the party's power structures. Momentum are the new Labour party and when Corbyn eventually goes the next leader will be less toxic perhaps but the party won't be changing its ideas. And as the party power structures actually properly reflects its membership I don't really have a problem with that.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Invalid user 2019 06 Dec 19 5.41pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Westminster voting intention: CON: 44% (-) LAB: 32% (+4) LDEM: 13% (-3) GRN: 3% (-) BREX: 2% (-1) via @IpsosMORI , 02 - 04 Dec Chgs. w/ Nov
|
|
| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Dec 19 6.09pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by dollardays
Westminster voting intention: CON: 44% (-) LAB: 32% (+4) LDEM: 13% (-3) GRN: 3% (-) BREX: 2% (-1) via @IpsosMORI , 02 - 04 Dec Chgs. w/ Nov Local Conservative literature features a quote from Professor John Curtice,writing in The Times, that the "Polls teeter between hung parliament and slim Tory majority"
|
|
| Invalid user 2019 06 Dec 19 6.30pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Willo
Local Conservative literature features a quote from Professor John Curtice,writing in The Times, that the "Polls teeter between hung parliament and slim Tory majority" I don't see any significant movement towards Labour this time around when compared with the last election, so I'd be more inclined to think it'll be a modest Conservative majority. I'm just a pleb looking at online polls though, not Professor Plum, so who knows!
|
|
| davenotamonkey 06 Dec 19 8.07pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Dead rats posted to your political opponents, to intimidate their campaign staff. Real classy acts running against the Conservatives in Chingford.
|
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 Dec 19 9.12pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Badger11
I hope your are correct although it appears that Corbyn is building a power base if not for him but his chosen successor. The moderates in the Labour party have a fight on their hands worse than when Kinnock fought off the Militant tendency. Momentum are embedded and not going anywhere. Let's hope I am wrong we need a moderate centre left Labour party to keep the Tories honest. Yeah I voted Lib Dem FWIW in East Surrey to dilute conservative austerity. Pity it didn’t happen in 2015 instead. Have to confess that I think I would’ve preferred no referendum as well, but that’s because they’ve done everything to delay it, but it’s going to happen finally at least.
COYP |
|
| Mapletree Croydon 06 Dec 19 11.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep, this is the actual reality of it. Corbyn and McDonald are less interested in national power than they were root and branch embedding the far left into the party's power structures. Momentum are the new Labour party and when Corbyn eventually goes the next leader will be less toxic perhaps but the party won't be changing its ideas. And as the party power structures actually properly reflects its membership I don't really have a problem with that. Yeh, that McDonald eh! Edited by Mapletree (06 Dec 2019 11.49pm)
|
|
Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 06 Dec 19 11.54pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
BBC speaking to a few people ahead of the debate, one being Kate Proctor from the Guardian. What a babe! A million woulds. Edited by Tom-the-eagle (06 Dec 2019 8.20pm) Shouldn't this be in the Upright thread?............
Pro USA & Israel |
|
| Midlands Eagle 07 Dec 19 11.09am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Willo
Finding of a poll amongst Conservative members released today has revealed that 92% expect a Conservative-led government after the election, with 76% expecting an overall Conservative majority. With respect a poll of Conservative members is hardly representative and is at best just guesswork
|
|
| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Dec 19 11.35am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I suspect the figures are broadly representative of the Conservative membership as a whole,all of whom of course did not participate in the survey.
|
|
| Stirlingsays 07 Dec 19 11.45am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by gerry theagle
What else would they expect. I'm a "floating voter" and watched the Johnson /Corbyn head to head last night, what really got on my nerves was Bojos constant use of "get Brexit done". He actually said it 12 or 13 times,I think that he thinks we are all stupid.So my vote is still up tor grabs but probably not Conservative.
However personally I don't see the sense in voting for any other than Tory or Labour in a GE.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Matov 08 Dec 19 11.08am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Badger11
As for the mood of the voters I think Thursday can't come soon enough most of us are fed up seeing politicians dominate our viewing screens. Edited by Badger11 (08 Dec 2019 8.28am) Agree with the 40 seat prediction. Could be 5 either way but who knows? Bringing me to your second point. There are simply no more definites in British politics anymore. People's faith in almost every aspect of our political discourse appears to be at an all-time low. Polls are wrong, 'experts' are shown to be laughable charlatans, time and time again, and our political class must be the most venal and out of touch it ever has been. I want a Tory win purely because I want Brexit done and they are the only main party seemingly (and I still have my doubts about them) actually implementing the Brexit result in a meaningful way. I genuinely fear for what this country might become/descend into if we are put through the farce of Labours second referendum. In the face of both a mass boycott by Leave voters allied with Labour attemtping to rig the electorate via extending the franchise to both U16's and EU citizens, it only offers even more division with all the stresses and strains that brings with it. I suspect that both the Labour Party and the Conservatives face potential disintegration in the face of a loss this Thursday. A Labour loss will spark of a huge civil war within its ranks as it divides along progressive/traditionalist lines along with a nice North/South divide thrown into the mix. Johnson fails to gain a majority and I struggle to see how he survives which in turn means the Tories will NEED to form an alliance with the Brexit party because Leave then becomes the defining issue. They simply cannot sit back and allow the result from June 23rd to be cast aside. Interesting times. Best outcome is a Tory majority sufficient to get us out of the EU but not large enough to make Johnson feel in anyway invincible. Then politics can have a reset and we see what comes out of the mix. But if Labour get their way and foist this farce of a second referendum on us, I genuinely fear what happens to the UK. I cannot see it surviving us not leaving the EU. No point really. If we are to become merely a collection of regions within the wider EU Empire then why on earth does the UK make any sense anymore? England would need to make its own way. Have to. It wants to Leave and to force it to stay offers nothing but more chaos.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 08 Dec 19 11.40am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Matov
Agree with the 40 seat prediction. Could be 5 either way but who knows? Bringing me to your second point. There are simply no more definites in British politics anymore. People's faith in almost every aspect of our political discourse appears to be at an all-time low. Polls are wrong, 'experts' are shown to be laughable charlatans, time and time again, and our political class must be the most venal and out of touch it ever has been. I want a Tory win purely because I want Brexit done and they are the only main party seemingly (and I still have my doubts about them) actually implementing the Brexit result in a meaningful way. I genuinely fear for what this country might become/descend into if we are put through the farce of Labours second referendum. In the face of both a mass boycott by Leave voters allied with Labour attemtping to rig the electorate via extending the franchise to both U16's and EU citizens, it only offers even more division with all the stresses and strains that brings with it. I suspect that both the Labour Party and the Conservatives face potential disintegration in the face of a loss this Thursday. A Labour loss will spark of a huge civil war within its ranks as it divides along progressive/traditionalist lines along with a nice North/South divide thrown into the mix. Johnson fails to gain a majority and I struggle to see how he survives which in turn means the Tories will NEED to form an alliance with the Brexit party because Leave then becomes the defining issue. They simply cannot sit back and allow the result from June 23rd to be cast aside. Interesting times. Best outcome is a Tory majority sufficient to get us out of the EU but not large enough to make Johnson feel in anyway invincible. Then politics can have a reset and we see what comes out of the mix. But if Labour get their way and foist this farce of a second referendum on us, I genuinely fear what happens to the UK. I cannot see it surviving us not leaving the EU. No point really. If we are to become merely a collection of regions within the wider EU Empire then why on earth does the UK make any sense anymore? England would need to make its own way. Have to. It wants to Leave and to force it to stay offers nothing but more chaos. You make some good points. I was listening to a political scientist on LBC can't remember the guys name Professor someone anyway he made some really interesting comments about all the parties. One in particular was that if the Tories win its because traditional Labour voters in the north have turned to them. The problem for the Tories will then be that beyond Brexit what can the Tories offer voters in these marginal seats to keep them onside. I guess that is why Johnson keeps saying he is a one nation Tory. So it is possible that he will move the Tories to the centre to keep those marginal voters which of course is the opposite of what he opponents say that he is "right wing swivel eyed loon".
Edited by Badger11 (08 Dec 2019 11.41am)
One more point |
|
| Matov 08 Dec 19 12.13pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Lefty activists on Twitter and FB are really nasty and insulting.....Quite amusing really.....God knows what they will be like the day after. They are utterly foul but for every action there is a reaction and that is what I fear most about a second referendum. Because it is blatantly clear that the R2's have no intention of trying to convince people who voted Leave in 2016 to change their mind. Instead, they are looking to effectively gerrymander the electorate along with not even having the semblance of a valid 'Leave' option on the ballot paper. Interesting to read about Farage today. Saying that he has registered the 'Reform Party' and that once Brexit is achieved, will rebrand his current political group. Offering abolition of the House of Lords, a form of PR and so on. Potentially a game changer because people are clearly sick to death of our conventional political class. A pithy name that seemingly cuts into the current Zeitgeist of disillusionment.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
|
| Stirlingsays 08 Dec 19 12.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Matov
They are utterly foul but for every action there is a reaction and that is what I fear most about a second referendum. Because it is blatantly clear that the R2's have no intention of trying to convince people who voted Leave in 2016 to change their mind. Instead, they are looking to effectively gerrymander the electorate along with not even having the semblance of a valid 'Leave' option on the ballot paper. Interesting to read about Farage today. Saying that he has registered the 'Reform Party' and that once Brexit is achieved, will rebrand his current political group. Offering abolition of the House of Lords, a form of PR and so on. Potentially a game changer because people are clearly sick to death of our conventional political class. A pithy name that seemingly cuts into the current Zeitgeist of disillusionment. I'd agree with a root and branch discussion on moving political representation into the modern day but I don't believe that PR is necessarily the system for that......Personally I'd push politics away from the elite political class and have the major decisions more like the Swiss system. The Swiss vote in referendums up to four times a year. They vote on around 15 federal proposals and also cast their ballot on issues affecting individual districts at the same time......Far more democratic and less elitist. I'd reform the House of Lords, I wouldn't abolish it. I would certainly not allow it to be elected though....that's makes it even more political than it already is. I want a House of Lords or even Commons full of people with nothing but contempt for politics and political parties. I'd want only those who were highly intelligent and independent whose only concern was the national interest......admittedly a high bar. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Dec 2019 1.02pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.