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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View Rubin's Profile Rubin Flag 07 Dec 17 11.23pm Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

A few years old, but still important.

[Link]

With chilling candour, a paper from a senior government official laid out the difficulties that Britain would face in the proposed Common Market.

All across Europe, from riots in Greece to those protest votes for Marine Le Pen and George Galloway, we see signs of how alienated people now feel from the “political class” which rules over our lives, out of touch with the rest of us, without meaningful opposition, no longer responsive to any democratic control. I am reminded of a document I discovered in the National Archives at Kew in January 2002, when sifting through papers released under the 30-year rule relating to Britain’s negotiations to join the Common Market. It was a confidential 1971 memorandum, clearly written by a senior Foreign Office official, headed “Sovereignty and the Community”.

With chilling candour, this paper (from FCO folder 30/104 predicted that it would take 30 years for the British people to wake up to the real nature of the European project that Edward Heath was about to take them into, by which time it would be too late for them to leave. Its author made clear that the Community was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty in history. Since “Community law” would take precedence over our own, ever more power would pass to this new bureaucratic system centred in Brussels – and, as the role of Parliament diminished, this would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from government”.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 07 Dec 17 11.29pm

Originally posted by Rubin

A few years old, but still important.

[Link]

With chilling candour, a paper from a senior government official laid out the difficulties that Britain would face in the proposed Common Market.

All across Europe, from riots in Greece to those protest votes for Marine Le Pen and George Galloway, we see signs of how alienated people now feel from the “political class” which rules over our lives, out of touch with the rest of us, without meaningful opposition, no longer responsive to any democratic control. I am reminded of a document I discovered in the National Archives at Kew in January 2002, when sifting through papers released under the 30-year rule relating to Britain’s negotiations to join the Common Market. It was a confidential 1971 memorandum, clearly written by a senior Foreign Office official, headed “Sovereignty and the Community”.

With chilling candour, this paper (from FCO folder 30/104 predicted that it would take 30 years for the British people to wake up to the real nature of the European project that Edward Heath was about to take them into, by which time it would be too late for them to leave. Its author made clear that the Community was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty in history. Since “Community law” would take precedence over our own, ever more power would pass to this new bureaucratic system centred in Brussels – and, as the role of Parliament diminished, this would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from government”.

They won in the 70's referendum. get over it.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Dec 17 12.16am

Worth watching just for the line, 'Rees Mogg will shot his pants and his nanny will have to change his nappy.'

 

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View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 08 Dec 17 10.53am Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Deal announced this morning seems very sensible.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 08 Dec 17 11.06am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Deal announced this morning seems very sensible.

Indeed. Which by that very definition means the Hard Brexiteers won't like it.

"There will be no "hard border" with Ireland and EU citizens in the UK, and UK citizens in the EU, will see their rights protected.
The so-called "divorce bill" will amount to between £35bn and £40bn, the BBC understands.

Edited by Kermit8 (08 Dec 2017 11.06am)

 


Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]


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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 08 Dec 17 11.11am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

Deal announced this morning seems very sensible.


“In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union.”

Looks like we are becoming closer to the EU as a result of brexit.


 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 08 Dec 17 11.27am Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20


“In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union.”

Looks like we are becoming closer to the EU as a result of brexit.



But won't have a say in any of those rules.

I'm glad we can move on to Stage 2 talks, but worried still that we've got the D team representing our interests.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Dec 17 11.43am

It's bloody unfair. A person from Northern Ireland can get an Irish passport and freely travel the EU. I can't. Why should they get preferential treatment by accident of birth.


Looks like a soft brexit...

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 08 Dec 17 12.02pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

It's bloody unfair. A person from Northern Ireland can get an Irish passport and freely travel the EU. I can't. Why should they get preferential treatment by accident of birth.


Looks like a soft brexit...

UK have conceded to every single EU requirement in Stage 1 talks. Hasn't been much of a negotiation, just a load of time wasting. DD utterly useless.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Dec 17 1.27pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

UK have conceded to every single EU requirement in Stage 1 talks. Hasn't been much of a negotiation, just a load of time wasting. DD utterly useless.

Not many Brexiteers on here rejoicing. We are onto stage 2 which means less chance of a hard Brexit but more chance of Brexit happening. I'd have thought they'd be shouting from the rooftops we are a step closer.

 

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wordup Flag 08 Dec 17 1.48pm


It looks like for the interim period of one or two years little will change. That sounds reasonable to me considering that trade agreements and thrashing everything out is going to be difficult enough as it is. At least now we not move on to that aspect.

 

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wordup Flag 08 Dec 17 1.58pm

Originally posted by steeleye20


“In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union.”

Looks like we are becoming closer to the EU as a result of brexit.


Hold on, I'm a bit confused here. So essentially we may still end up in the single market and customs union anyway. What about freedom of movement?

People did warn that we'd basically just end up with a worse version of what we already had. The same in all but name, but no real say. Funnily enough it looks like the DUP helped us get there lol.

Edited by wordup (08 Dec 2017 1.59pm)

 

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