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August 13 2020 5.31pm

Confederate Flag

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Hoof Hearted 01 Jul 14 1.03pm

It was Cletus Eagle wot done flew that flag uhuh.

 

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View skatman's Profile skatman Flag 01 Jul 14 1.58pm Send a Private Message to skatman Add skatman as a friend

It's a red and blue flag, what could be more 'Palace'?

 

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View martin2412's Profile martin2412 Flag The Big Wide World 01 Jul 14 2.03pm Send a Private Message to martin2412 Add martin2412 as a friend

I think people might be making a bit too much of this. Could it be that the flag is red & blue as to why it's at the Palace ?

Edit: Skatman got there first.

Edited by martin2412 (01 Jul 2014 2.04pm)

 

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View MikeT's Profile MikeT Flag Burlington (Toronto Area) 01 Jul 14 4.28pm Send a Private Message to MikeT Add MikeT as a friend

Quote billyjack at 01 Jul 2014 4.54am

Hey guys,
Regular lurker here on your site, and Palace admirer from New England in the USA. Please don't adopt and support the Confederate flag in your fans' groups. I know it was 150 years ago when the South first flew this flag in our Civil War, and in a sane world it shouldn't be a big deal, but the US has some rough history and some insane people, and the flag still has bad undertones and dog whistle meanings.

Sorry to butt into your message board, but thought it might be helpful to get an American's take on the flag... and I'd recommend strongly that you don't associate yourself with it.

Best of luck this coming season...!


Edited by billyjack (01 Jul 2014 5.17am)

Palace now has a very high visibility in North America, particularly with the wall-to-wall promotion and attention by the NBC network who like to focus on the outstanding Palace support and the HF displays. As the OP and billyjack among others have pointed out, the Confederate flag has bad historic connotations on this side of the pond, and is widely viewed as a racist, white supremacist symbol over here.

The flag was particularly visible as part of a larger banner in a close up in the game against Man City -- I believe that's where the image above was sourced. Since this was a key end of season game affecting the title there was an incredible amount of focus and a large TV audience.

After that game there were pointed questions on twitter and at least one North American podcast as to whether Palace was a racist club. These concerns were passed on to the club, and my understanding is that they contacted the HF, who had viewed it as just a symbol of rebellion and the underdog, and also conveniently happened to be red and blue. The HF were apparently horrified that this could be misconstrued as support for racism and readily agreed to remove it. At the following Liverpool game it was very gratifying to see the closeup of the same banner with a bit missing, and no unwanted distractions from the Premier League game of the season.

Looking forward to a highly successful US tour in July.

 

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View adrian b's Profile adrian b Flag Landrindod, Wales 01 Jul 14 6.16pm Send a Private Message to adrian b Add adrian b as a friend

Some nice contributions from our yankee cousins here. People should think before introducing any banners and flags anywhere, as every flag has a meaning. Some will play this down as just a bit of fun, but others do find it provocative and a such attendance and media coverage may be affected by it. Would anyone chose to fly a Swaztica?

 

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View MikeT's Profile MikeT Flag Burlington (Toronto Area) 01 Jul 14 9.01pm Send a Private Message to MikeT Add MikeT as a friend

Quote adrian b at 01 Jul 2014 6.16pm

Some nice contributions from our yankee cousins here. People should think before introducing any banners and flags anywhere, as every flag has a meaning. Some will play this down as just a bit of fun, but others do find it provocative and a such attendance and media coverage may be affected by it. Would anyone chose to fly a Swaztica?

Geography sir! Some of us reside in the colony to the North. The Yankees, especially of the New York persuasion, are Toronto's fiercest rivals. But we're all united in CPFC. :-)

 

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View trapperjohn's Profile trapperjohn Flag Horsham 01 Jul 14 9.21pm Send a Private Message to trapperjohn Add trapperjohn as a friend

Quote MikeT at 01 Jul 2014 4.28pm

Quote billyjack at 01 Jul 2014 4.54am

Hey guys,
Regular lurker here on your site, and Palace admirer from New England in the USA. Please don't adopt and support the Confederate flag in your fans' groups. I know it was 150 years ago when the South first flew this flag in our Civil War, and in a sane world it shouldn't be a big deal, but the US has some rough history and some insane people, and the flag still has bad undertones and dog whistle meanings.

Sorry to butt into your message board, but thought it might be helpful to get an American's take on the flag... and I'd recommend strongly that you don't associate yourself with it.

Best of luck this coming season...!


Edited by billyjack (01 Jul 2014 5.17am)

Palace now has a very high visibility in North America, particularly with the wall-to-wall promotion and attention by the NBC network who like to focus on the outstanding Palace support and the HF displays. As the OP and billyjack among others have pointed out, the Confederate flag has bad historic connotations on this side of the pond, and is widely viewed as a racist, white supremacist symbol over here.

The flag was particularly visible as part of a larger banner in a close up in the game against Man City -- I believe that's where the image above was sourced. Since this was a key end of season game affecting the title there was an incredible amount of focus and a large TV audience.

After that game there were pointed questions on twitter and at least one North American podcast as to whether Palace was a racist club. These concerns were passed on to the club, and my understanding is that they contacted the HF, who had viewed it as just a symbol of rebellion and the underdog, and also conveniently happened to be red and blue. The HF were apparently horrified that this could be misconstrued as support for racism and readily agreed to remove it. At the following Liverpool game it was very gratifying to see the closeup of the same banner with a bit missing, and no unwanted distractions from the Premier League game of the season.

Looking forward to a highly successful US tour in July.

So does that apply to the Mississippi State flag ?

[Link]

Not wanting to be argumentative, just curious - and especially as Skynyrd use the flag as a major part of their live set (as noted before)


Edited by trapperjohn (01 Jul 2014 9.21pm)

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 02 Jul 14 12.20am

Its a beautiful flag, stained by association to very nasty political movements and racist history. Probably my favourite flag of all time.

 


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View MikeT's Profile MikeT Flag Burlington (Toronto Area) 02 Jul 14 1.41am Send a Private Message to MikeT Add MikeT as a friend

Quote trapperjohn at 01 Jul 2014 9.21pm

Quote MikeT at 01 Jul 2014 4.28pm

Quote billyjack at 01 Jul 2014 4.54am

Hey guys,
Regular lurker here on your site, and Palace admirer from New England in the USA. Please don't adopt and support the Confederate flag in your fans' groups. I know it was 150 years ago when the South first flew this flag in our Civil War, and in a sane world it shouldn't be a big deal, but the US has some rough history and some insane people, and the flag still has bad undertones and dog whistle meanings.

Sorry to butt into your message board, but thought it might be helpful to get an American's take on the flag... and I'd recommend strongly that you don't associate yourself with it.

Best of luck this coming season...!


Edited by billyjack (01 Jul 2014 5.17am)

Palace now has a very high visibility in North America, particularly with the wall-to-wall promotion and attention by the NBC network who like to focus on the outstanding Palace support and the HF displays. As the OP and billyjack among others have pointed out, the Confederate flag has bad historic connotations on this side of the pond, and is widely viewed as a racist, white supremacist symbol over here.

The flag was particularly visible as part of a larger banner in a close up in the game against Man City -- I believe that's where the image above was sourced. Since this was a key end of season game affecting the title there was an incredible amount of focus and a large TV audience.

After that game there were pointed questions on twitter and at least one North American podcast as to whether Palace was a racist club. These concerns were passed on to the club, and my understanding is that they contacted the HF, who had viewed it as just a symbol of rebellion and the underdog, and also conveniently happened to be red and blue. The HF were apparently horrified that this could be misconstrued as support for racism and readily agreed to remove it. At the following Liverpool game it was very gratifying to see the closeup of the same banner with a bit missing, and no unwanted distractions from the Premier League game of the season.

Looking forward to a highly successful US tour in July.

So does that apply to the Mississippi State flag ?

[Link]

Not wanting to be argumentative, just curious - and especially as Skynyrd use the flag as a major part of their live set (as noted before)


Edited by trapperjohn (01 Jul 2014 9.21pm)

For the curious, the Mississippi State flag is highly controversial, and the state, unlike other Southern states, has been somewhat sluggish in making adjustments. It only ratified the 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, last year. Apparently, they forgot about it!
[Link]
[Link]

Lynryd Skynyrd reversed their original decision to lose the flag because of its racist associations after pressure from their fans. Fortunately, Palace is not an old Southern rock group and doesn't need to have people questioning our anti-racism credentials.

[Link]

 

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View Superfly's Profile Superfly Flag The sun always shines in Catford 02 Jul 14 9.29am Send a Private Message to Superfly Add Superfly as a friend

We do need to be very careful. Of course, there are always arguments that certain symbols don't have negative connotations at their root but once a symbol is tainted, then many will see it as an endorsement of the misery caused by those that brandish it. The horrifying thought that any Palace fan could actually be subjected to listening to Free Bird as a result of this just doesn't bear thinking about.

 


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View Generix's Profile Generix Flag Orpington 02 Jul 14 10.24am Send a Private Message to Generix Add Generix as a friend

I'm confused...

We can't fly the flag for fear of offending some people very far away from Selhurst Park who watch the games on tv?

Oh no, what if they really took offence and boycotted our club and merchandise that would really hurt income to the tune of approcimately 0 a year!

Also there is the reputational point to consider, because a single fan has a red/blue flag waving in a crowd amongst various outher flags - obviously there must be a deep meaning to the flag and it must be representative of the entire club/fanbases thoughts and mindset.

People clearly have too much time on their hands to be thinking up imaginery issues with a single flag being waved at a football game!


Edited by Generix (02 Jul 2014 10.24am)

 

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View simontbc's Profile simontbc Flag Bristol 02 Jul 14 12.03pm Send a Private Message to simontbc Add simontbc as a friend

Quote Generix at 02 Jul 2014 10.24am

I'm confused...

We can't fly the flag for fear of offending some people very far away from Selhurst Park who watch the games on tv?

Oh no, what if they really took offence and boycotted our club and merchandise that would really hurt income to the tune of approcimately 0 a year!

Also there is the reputational point to consider, because a single fan has a red/blue flag waving in a crowd amongst various outher flags - obviously there must be a deep meaning to the flag and it must be representative of the entire club/fanbases thoughts and mindset.

People clearly have too much time on their hands to be thinking up imaginery issues with a single flag being waved at a football game!


Edited by Generix (02 Jul 2014 10.24am)


I was always under the impression that the aforementioned flag although now known as the confederate flag was no more than a battle flag. It's based on the St Andrews cross I think. It was just adopted as a sign of Southern pride so not necessarily making it racist. Many dubious organisations in this country use the St Georges cross but that should not stop anyone flying it where they see fit just because of a minority 'misusing' it. Of course I could be completely wrong and will bow to a better knowledge than mine of the subject.

 

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