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June 24 2024 11.03am

Palestinians inciting violence

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 15 1.30pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

551 children were killed including those playing on the beach by the IDF during the last flare up but I am not sure how many of them were involved in rocket launches.

 


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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 11 Oct 15 2.05pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 1.26pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 12.19pm

Quote Oliver at 11 Oct 2015 12.09pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 11.57am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.18am

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.47am

Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm

Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today.

Here we go again.


And where are the brave Palestinian leaders who direct and incite the kids into throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, who in turn fire into crowds who are physically threatening them?

They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'.

Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny.


During the last siege of Gaza, Amnesty international did a month long investigation and found no evidence at all of human shielding being used. It is a complete myth created by a state seeking moral justification for bombing children.

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

Plenty of evidence to the contrary, including video footage.

And of course, Amnesty doesn't have a leftist agenda, does it?


Wow the the bottom link is very interesting

It is, well done for reading it, and it is put on here because there needs to be balance in the debate and not accept that one side is right and the other wrong.

I think that the Palestinian leadership are deplorable, sub human scum. I also think there are elements of the IDF who use unnecessary force.


I am very surprised you have put a link telling the story of how Israeli soldiers were using Palestinians as human shields but bravo.

Read what I have said - there is fault on both sides.

Are you prepared to admit that the Palestinian leadership is using its own people for its own ends and putting them in danger?

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 11 Oct 15 2.08pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 1.30pm

551 children were killed including those playing on the beach by the IDF during the last flare up but I am not sure how many of them were involved in rocket launches.


How many were brainwashed or forced into throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails in a group of people by the Palestinian hierarchy, thus meaning that they would be mown down when the IDF defend themselves?

There is clearly more to this than what you are saying.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Green Bin's Profile Green Bin Flag Carshalton Beeches 11 Oct 15 2.13pm Send a Private Message to Green Bin Add Green Bin as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 3.17pm

Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 1.26pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Oct 2015 12.44pm

Quote serial thriller at 10 Oct 2015 12.04pm

Whilst we all know where this thread will end up - nowhere - I still find myself feeling the need to at least challenge some of the nonsense already peddled on this thread.

First and foremost - and I recommend reading this sentence a few times so you fully process it and don't start claiming that I'm some terrorist sympathiser - what happened in Israel is a tragedy, and Palestinian attacks on civilian areas is something morally indefensible in my opinion.

But the idea that they are inciting violence? Well I guess it depends upon what exactly you consider as inciting violence. Shall we remove all context for these attacks and suppose that they are committed by psychopaths with no purpose other than to aggravate the peaceful state of Israel? Or shall we acknowledge that even since the conflict fell down the pecking order in the British media, Israeli security forces have continued to confine children in prisons without trial, have continued to aggressively police Palestinian neighbours, refusing entry to certain areas of Gaza for people who have lived in said areas for generations? Shall we ignore the fact that on the West Bank Israelis continue to illegally settle their people on land which isn't theirs under international law? Maybe we should also ignore the fact that Gaza, one of the most impoverished areas in the world, is being refused vital medical, constructional and food supplies because of the ludicrously strict blockade imposed by Israelis?

Let's be clear then. The Palestinians aren't inciting violence, they are committing it. It is very much the Israelis who have incited recent actions, and the sad thing is these atrocities are only ever reported in the mainstream media once rockets and bombs are fired.

The only way in which Palestinians can hope to achieve statehood is by moving beyond committing terrorist acts, rather than allowing and encouraging these types of attacks on innocent people.

The World, quite rightly, cannot allow these people to be a formal state until they are able to cohabit with Israel and act like a proper state.


With respect Matt, this view suggests a real lack of historical knowledge of this conflict. We've been down the peace route: the Oslo summit and Camp David, in which Arafat recognised Israel as a state and talks were held over a two state solution failed because what Israel offered was frankly derisory. Even the Israeli diplomats present have since said they wouldn't have accepted the US-Israel offer if they had been Palestinian.

In fact, formally, we've had 'peace' since the last siege. Yes, you have had nutters on both sides committing isolated acts of violence, be it the killing of a young child by Jewish extremists on the West Bank, or Palestinian suicide bombers in Jerusalem. Yet as I said, while you have had formal peace from both Fatah and Hamas in Palestine, the IDF, affiliated to the Israeli government, continues to kill people, sentence them to prison without trial and refuse them entry to their communities. 'Peace' is an incredibly loose term when we are talking about ceasefire in this conflict as more often than not what it entails is a more insidious form of warfare waged by Israel.


Edited by serial thriller (10 Oct 2015 1.27pm)

I understand the history and the above in no way changes my view that if the Palestinians wanted to be taken seriously, they would act differently.

All you are doing is justifying terrorism.

You should try reading 'The Palestine Papers' by Clayton Swisner, then you would see how far the Palestinian leadership was prepared to make concessions around 2007-2010 to the disgust of their own people. In the same vein you should read 'The ethnic cleansing of Palestine'by Ilan Pappe an Israeli historian to understand the tactic's the Jewish militia's and fledgling Israeli 'defence' (sic) force went to, to expand beyond the UN partition plan and remove any viability to a Palestinian state.

It's funny how the ANC and ZANU/ZAPU were considered freedom fighters but Hamas are considered terrorists. Of course the Palestinians could be totally subservient and peace loving, and it would get them precisely..... no where. Israel isn't interested in the slightest in granting the Palestinians any sort of statehood, did you recall Netanyahu's statement in this years Israeli election campaign, and he is moderate compared to the religious parties that form any government who want to see Palestine eradicated.

Of course if it's accepted (for arguments sake) that peaceful means won't get the Palestinians anywhere, then there isn't the scope for a conventional war in this area because Gaza and the cantons of the West Bank are tightly populated and hemmed in, Hamas of course doesn't have a conventional army/air force so a polite exchange of fire between two sides isn't going to happen!

I find it a bit pious people going on about someone 'justifying' terrorism whilst failing to understand that various forms of terrorism are carried out on a daily basis by the 'stronger' side with the tacit acquiescence (to varying degrees) of the rest of the world. Of course some of America's actions in Vietnam could no way be described as terrorism (but that's another discussion!)

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 15 2.22pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 2.05pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 1.26pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 12.19pm

Quote Oliver at 11 Oct 2015 12.09pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 11.57am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.18am

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.47am

Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm

Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today.

Here we go again.


And where are the brave Palestinian leaders who direct and incite the kids into throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, who in turn fire into crowds who are physically threatening them?

They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'.

Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny.


During the last siege of Gaza, Amnesty international did a month long investigation and found no evidence at all of human shielding being used. It is a complete myth created by a state seeking moral justification for bombing children.

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

Plenty of evidence to the contrary, including video footage.

And of course, Amnesty doesn't have a leftist agenda, does it?


Wow the the bottom link is very interesting

It is, well done for reading it, and it is put on here because there needs to be balance in the debate and not accept that one side is right and the other wrong.

I think that the Palestinian leadership are deplorable, sub human scum. I also think there are elements of the IDF who use unnecessary force.


I am very surprised you have put a link telling the story of how Israeli soldiers were using Palestinians as human shields but bravo.

Read what I have said - there is fault on both sides.

Are you prepared to admit that the Palestinian leadership is using its own people for its own ends and putting them in danger?


Specifically in regard to Gaza and Israel It is patently obvious that this conflict suits those in the very higher echelons of government on both sides and the innocent are used and abused. Demolishing 10,000 homes, having half a million traumatised kids and killing over 500 of them will never, and should never, give Israel the moral high ground though and I find it, frankly, despicable when some try to spin it as such.


 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 15 2.55pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 2.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 1.30pm

551 children were killed including those playing on the beach by the IDF during the last flare up but I am not sure how many of them were involved in rocket launches.


How many were brainwashed or forced into throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails in a group of people by the Palestinian hierarchy, thus meaning that they would be mown down when the IDF defend themselves?

There is clearly more to this than what you are saying.


Even if there is "more" do you never ask yourself what kind of heavily tooled up 'soldier' would think it is acceptable to slot a thirteen year old kid between the eyes for throwing stones at him, and how he himself might have been brainwashed and brutalised by his own side in order for their iniquitous agenda to be successful?

A pebble v an Uzi. Not really a fair fight is it?

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 11 Oct 15 3.00pm Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 1.26pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 12.19pm

Quote Oliver at 11 Oct 2015 12.09pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 11.57am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.18am

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.47am

Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm

Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today.

Here we go again.


And where are the brave Palestinian leaders who direct and incite the kids into throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, who in turn fire into crowds who are physically threatening them?

They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'.

Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny.


During the last siege of Gaza, Amnesty international did a month long investigation and found no evidence at all of human shielding being used. It is a complete myth created by a state seeking moral justification for bombing children.

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

Plenty of evidence to the contrary, including video footage.

And of course, Amnesty doesn't have a leftist agenda, does it?


Wow the the bottom link is very interesting

It is, well done for reading it, and it is put on here because there needs to be balance in the debate and not accept that one side is right and the other wrong.

I think that the Palestinian leadership are deplorable, sub human scum. I also think there are elements of the IDF who use unnecessary force.


I am very surprised you have put a link telling the story of how Israeli soldiers were using Palestinians as human shields but bravo.

I suspect he was very surprised too, haha.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Oct 15 3.33pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

A son of an Israeli General talks about the situation. Well worth a look and for reflection.

[Link]

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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Hoof Hearted 11 Oct 15 3.44pm

Quote nickgusset at 11 Oct 2015 11.45am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 11.41am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.37am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 11 Oct 2015 11.29am

Quote serial thriller at 11 Oct 2015 11.18am

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 7.47am

Quote Kermit8 at 10 Oct 2015 10.52pm

Two kids shot dead by Israeli soldiers today.

Here we go again.


And where are the brave Palestinian leaders who direct and incite the kids into throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at IDF soldiers, who in turn fire into crowds who are physically threatening them?

They are hidden in areas populated by ordinary people, knowing that Israeli bombs aimed at them will slaughter their own. They are no doubt on the phone to Riyadh and Doha, arranging more money to be sent to them to continue the 'struggle'.

Blaming Israel for this is too simplistic and wrong. The Palestinian leaders need to be held up for scrutiny.


During the last siege of Gaza, Amnesty international did a month long investigation and found no evidence at all of human shielding being used. It is a complete myth created by a state seeking moral justification for bombing children.


And Amnesty International had no political agenda that they were working to?

Of course they found no evidence.... they weren't looking for any!


Please tell us what Amnesty's agenda is Hoof, I was clearly of the mistaken belief that they were a non-partisan charity!


You won't find many right wing thinking people affiliated to them Serial.


Right wingers not caring about others shocker!


Au Contraire Nickle-arse.......

I actually do care about others, but in this case it's the Israelis/Jewish people.

Just in case any body forgot or wasn't paying attention in History classes at school, the Jews were treated pretty badly from about 1930 to 1945 by Hitler and the Nazis (and probably Stalin and his regime).

The state of Israel was created to give the Jewish people a "spiritual home" and universal agreement to this creation was sanctioned by the UN.

Since it's creation, neighbouring Arab countries have tried to wage war with Israel, but so far have got a bloody nose.

Bearing in mind the treatment Jews have experienced since 1930 is it any wonder that they are fed up with Arab aggression, do not trust Arabs and will not rule out any measures to protect their borders and population.

The Palestinians are just sh1t-stirring and deserve all the retaliation that they get from Israel when it is always them that breaks the ceasefires.

 

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View leifandersonshair's Profile leifandersonshair Flag Newport 11 Oct 15 4.34pm Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Both sides are trapped in a circle of violence, which neither side seems particularly interested in ending.

Israel cracks down on Palestinian civilians (normally), be it through tightening sanctions, or just a flashpoint of a shooting etc, Hamas fire dozens of rockets and kill a few dozen Israeli civilians, IDF goes in heavy handed and kills hundreds of civilians (plus maybe a few militants). Uneasy 'peace' for a few months, then rinse and repeat.

Palestinians have nowhere to go (literally), and keep getting squeezed, and terrorist actions are their only way of fighting back. Israel (not unreasonably) won't commit to a Palestinian state while Hamas keeps lobbing rockets at them. QED.

 

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View oldcodger's Profile oldcodger Flag 11 Oct 15 5.03pm Send a Private Message to oldcodger Add oldcodger as a friend

Quote leifandersonshair at 11 Oct 2015 4.34pm

Both sides are trapped in a circle of violence, which neither side seems particularly interested in ending.

Israel cracks down on Palestinian civilians (normally), be it through tightening sanctions, or just a flashpoint of a shooting etc, Hamas fire dozens of rockets and kill a few dozen Israeli civilians, IDF goes in heavy handed and kills hundreds of civilians (plus maybe a few militants). Uneasy 'peace' for a few months, then rinse and repeat.

Palestinians have nowhere to go (literally), and keep getting squeezed, and terrorist actions are their only way of fighting back. Israel (not unreasonably) won't commit to a Palestinian state while Hamas keeps lobbing rockets at them. QED.

A fair summing up at last and of course you're right, there's little interest in ending it, in fact there are vested interests on all sides to keep the cycle going.

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 11 Oct 15 5.11pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 2.55pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Oct 2015 2.08pm

Quote Kermit8 at 11 Oct 2015 1.30pm

551 children were killed including those playing on the beach by the IDF during the last flare up but I am not sure how many of them were involved in rocket launches.


How many were brainwashed or forced into throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails in a group of people by the Palestinian hierarchy, thus meaning that they would be mown down when the IDF defend themselves?

There is clearly more to this than what you are saying.


Even if there is "more" do you never ask yourself what kind of heavily tooled up 'soldier' would think it is acceptable to slot a thirteen year old kid between the eyes for throwing stones at him, and how he himself might have been brainwashed and brutalised by his own side in order for their iniquitous agenda to be successful?

A pebble v an Uzi. Not really a fair fight is it?


Let's leave it there. You are too bent in one direction to consider debate, just push on which emotive discourse to pursue your own, blinkered world view.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship. - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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