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March 29 2024 10.36am

The state of the Conservative Party

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View We are goin up!'s Profile We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 18 Feb 16 1.53pm Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

I've been a member of the Conservatives since I was 16, have been on campaign trails, gone to party conference and have obviously always voted Tory. This isn't because I'm in favour of dog-eat-dog and am a racist, heartless b****** as many of us conservatives are portrayed. It's because I believe in conservative values like family, property ownership, decency, sovereignty and defence of the realm.

For the last few months I've been completely and utterly put off this toxic party which I used to support so fervently. The opposition that they have is so weak that they have an opportunity to not sell out their souls and revamp this country and take away dependency on the state.

What I see is nothing of the sort. This government is full of rhetoric and shallow on substance.

I do mortgage advice, and I'm seeing with my own eyes that their over regulation of mortgages and intervention in the market of Buy-to-Let isn't helping first time buyers in the slightest. It sounds good in the Guardian, but like most interventionist policy it doesn't actually work.

Their whole selling point is economic responsibility, and yet the budget deficit is still far, far too high. Far from fixing the roof when the sun is shining, which is what they accused Labour of failing to do, as soon as a positive economic forecast came out (ie in the latest Autumn statement) the Chancellor can go on what can only be called a spending spree. This, coupled with the absolute shambles that was the working tax credit saga, has convinced me that the guy has completely lost the plot. He should be sacked.

And the final straw...

Their "hard line on immigration" is a complete f*cking joke. Conservatives are meant to be against "big ideas" in the state, and free movement of people over borders is absolutely huge. How can they go through this phoney negotiation for EU membership, get NOTHING on immigration and look themselves in the mirror and their membership/country in the eye and say that we should stay? What a disgrace. Cameron has many achievements, but this EU farce will tarnish his reputation. Even if we vote to stay in it will be begrudgingly and IMO will not see the end of resentment towards the EU.

I've gone from not even thinking about who to vote for, to being one more f*ck up away from voting UKIP. F*ck em, if you alienate your core support as much as they are, you'll eventually see them leave for someone else.


They've become the new Blair and Brown, they only ever do things for tactical effect, rather than standing up for what they supposedly believe in.

My question is...

Is this how true Labourites feel about those two? A sense of near shame that they represented them? I'm starting to understand why they voted in Corbyn.


 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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View Willo's Profile Willo Online Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Feb 16 1.58pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Being an avid supporter of the 'Conservative Party' for decades, a member and an activist I will refrain from passing any further comment on the subject under discussion else I fear it will disintegrate into yet another tedious WILLO thread.So over to you Ladies and Gentlemen.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 18 Feb 16 1.59pm

Pretty much how I viewed Blair and Brown, the capitulation of the representation of the people to the representation of corporate interests.

The 'buy to let' is simply another stealth tax aimed at people who've made an investment that has paid back to them. If it was aimed at people who owned more than three properties, I could see it. But those affected will be those who just have 'done alright' for themselves.

Same as New Labour. The governments go after the soft targets, the you, me and everyman. Large corporate interests and wealth manage to avoid paying their 'fair share' of tax, whilst increasingly individuals are penalised for make a 'bit extra' for themselves.

Obviously, my politics are very different to yours, given I'm very leftist (even so, I believe in immigration control and rent control though for very different reasons). I see rent control being better implemented through a reasonable amount of 'council property availability' to serve as competition on private enterprise.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (18 Feb 2016 2.04pm)

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View We are goin up!'s Profile We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 18 Feb 16 2.05pm Send a Private Message to We are goin up! Add We are goin up! as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Being an avid supporter of the 'Conservative Party' for decades, a member and an activist I will refrain from passing any further comment on the subject under discussion else I fear it will disintegrate into yet another tedious WILLO thread.So over to you Ladies and Gentlemen.


My point is that they are completely alienating their avid supporters! Do you not feel the same way? If you're a conservative you cannot surely be happy with the fact this government isn't being all that conservative.

 


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 18 Feb 16 2.33pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Being an avid supporter of the 'Conservative Party' for decades, a member and an activist I will refrain from passing any further comment on the subject under discussion else I fear it will disintegrate into yet another tedious WILLO thread.So over to you Ladies and Gentlemen.

You turn threads into "Willo threads" by posting that you aren't going to post which is self-aggrandizement in the extreme

 

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 18 Feb 16 2.53pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

Being an avid supporter of the 'Conservative Party' for decades, a member and an activist I will refrain from passing any further comment on the subject under discussion else I fear it will disintegrate into yet another tedious WILLO thread.So over to you Ladies and Gentlemen.

If you're not going to post, why not just not post?

Being a Tory supporter doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with them all the time on every subject (unless you're just very easily led). This was amply demonstrated by Labour members (presumably also Labour supporters of long standing in many cases) turning their back on the old leadership and voting for Corbyn in vast numbers.

I have voted Tory in most (possibly all, I can't remember) parliamentary elections in the 30+ years I've been eligible to vote, but didn't last time round, mainly due to their dropping of any facade that they actually care about anyone other than big business.

 

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 18 Feb 16 3.24pm Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

When you have a party leader who can't remember which fecking football team he is supposed to support then you know you are in trouble.

Thing is that none of the of the other front-runners look any better. George Osborne? Theresa May? Michael Gove? Boris Johnson? Jeremy c***?

The only thing keeping them in power is that they aren't the Labour party.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 18 Feb 16 3.30pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Cameron's also about to get a red face at the EU - they will tell him to get stuffed on all but the most minor points, and he'll then have to try to sell it as a great victory for Britain.

Totally counter-productive grandstanding. I was 99% sure to be an "in" voter before he started this "renegotiation", now it seems clear they are not budging, I'd put myself at closer to 70% in the "in" camp. Should've kept his stupid mouth shut.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Feb 16 3.32pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

The Tories are trying to grab the middle ground of politics.
In short they want votes like every other party and place that way above principle.
Of course, they have the unwanted problem of trimming all the overspending and unnecessary layers of administration that Labour always create which, needless to say. makes them look "mean".

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 18 Feb 16 3.48pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The Tories are trying to grab the middle ground of politics.
In short they want votes like every other party and place that way above principle.
Of course, they have the unwanted problem of trimming all the overspending and unnecessary layers of administration that Labour always create which, needless to say. makes them look "mean".

This trimming of the unnecessary layers of administration generally results in massive problems of misadministration in public services - as it invariably ends up with administrators being laid off, and front line staff having to pick up the slack. I don't disagree that New Labour created excessive layers of administrative functionality - The problem is that these produce administration in response to public demands, inquiries, legislation etc.

Also it tends to be this layer that decides where cuts are made, which invariably means they don't make themselves redundant. Cuts invariably impact services far more than service administration. Which is why you end up with a police officer doing more admin work, because the admin clerks have been laid off, and a consultant brought in to train police officers to train officers in paperwork and administrative practices.

Its a Kafka farce. Each side generally goes too far, because its committed more to its own popularity, than it pragmatism.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Joe Bloggs's Profile Joe Bloggs Flag Nr Norwich 18 Feb 16 3.52pm Send a Private Message to Joe Bloggs Add Joe Bloggs as a friend

The party of the working class and all being in this together was also just a little ott!

 

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 18 Feb 16 4.01pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by We are goin up!


My point is that they are completely alienating their avid supporters! Do you not feel the same way? If you're a conservative you cannot surely be happy with the fact this government isn't being all that conservative.

I do feel the same way and I am afraid I too am leaning towards UKIP as they are beginning to make me wonder if supporting the Conservative party since I was able to vote and that is for over 55 years has been wasted. DC has made a hash of his negotiations up to now and should be on the "get out" side as the Union is not going to give us what most people want. We will do better on the outside rather than giving huge amounts of money to be in. I want to have us control our borders, stop paying immigrants vast amounts of money for their children and wives who do not even live in this country, to stop who we want to from entering the UK and above all I want us to have total control of our laws. Having the EU overrule our judges is not on in my book. Unless DC does a U turn and asks for more and gets more then I am one voter that will not give him my vote ever again.

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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