The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 tome  Inner Tantalus Time. 04 Sep 19 11.43pm |
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Originally posted by dynamicdick
Complete rubbish, Parliaments actions are all about No Brexit in the guise of No Deal. Complete disregard of the original 2016 outcome. The Government should be the only ones making the decisions NOT Parliament for the very reason that the majority don’t want Brexit at any cost. Got any evidence for your first contention? As for the second, the government doesn't have a majority. You may prefer to live in a dictatorship but the UK is a parliamentary democracy, that's how it works.
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cpfc_chap  koh samui 05 Sep 19 12.36am |
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Originally posted by tome
Got any evidence for your first contention? As for the second, the government doesn't have a majority. You may prefer to live in a dictatorship but the UK is a parliamentary democracy, that's how it works. In that case the GE should happen, as the mps can't get anything sorted!! let's see if the people choose via a general election but guess all remain parties are unhappy about this as so many constituencies voted leave and they'd be out of work! Labour and lib dems are showing up to be cowards by not wanting one!
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| tome Inner Tantalus Time. 05 Sep 19 12.55am |
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Originally posted by cpfc_chap
In that case the GE should happen, as the mps can't get anything sorted!! let's see if the people choose via a general election but guess all remain parties are unhappy about this as so many constituencies voted leave and they'd be out of work! Labour and lib dems are showing up to be cowards by not wanting one! What's with all the playground insults? If you accept MPs are often useless, not sure how a new batch after a geneeral election will change much. I think the country mostly stumbles along without great drama precisely because parliament represents a variety of positions - reflective of society as a whole, as samprior pointed out. Also, the only party with a remain policy is the Lib Dems - actually maybe the Greens too.
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cryrst  The garden of England 05 Sep 19 6.21am |
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Originally posted by tome
The extent of your binary vision seems almost pathological. Just yelling 'bulls***' is no argument. I really struggle with this idea that leaving with no deal is somehow in the country's interests. How do you think leaving the world's largest single market will help? We dont know if it will be better,the same or worse.
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Midlands Eagle  05 Sep 19 7.16am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
"The will of parliament" or the will of a handful of MPs? I don't call 28 MPs "the will of parliament"
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| dreamwaverider London 05 Sep 19 7.22am |
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When the referendum was carried out, I am sure very few of us understood the complexities of our constitution and the inabilities of our system to ever agree on a method of leaving. Our system has shown conclusively that on a 50/50 result or close to it represented similarly by the politicians we will NEVER arrive at a solution on which parliament will agree. An election (which has already been disagreed) would merely bring us back to the same place.
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| Matov 05 Sep 19 7.24am |
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So it looked like we will not be leaving on the 31st but that we will have an election. Good. This needs sorting. As things stand, my vote will be cast solely on the Brexit issue. If the Brexit party stand a candidate in my constituency then he or she will get my vote. If the Brexit Party decide to stand aside for the Tories, based on a definite pledge that we leave with no deal, then I vote for them. But matters need resolving. Not even bothered anymore if Corbyn wins. Will be highly amusing in a nihilistic sort of fashion especially when he clashes with the EU himself as he invariably will and the anguish that causes for all the text-message trots forced to confront the glaring contradiction at the heart of their schizophrenic love of Corbyn and the EU. However in the event of a second referendum with Remain still on the ballot I will refuse to legitimise it by taking part. I would rather see the inevitable break up of the UK than allow myself to take part in that farce. Still, let us cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, let us get a GE underway and see how the die land. All to play for still.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 05 Sep 19 7.51am |
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Yesterday was a good day for Corbyn as Johnson lost his call for a GE and late last night he accepted that the extension bill will become law and will go through the Lords unopposed. On Monday after that bill has Royal Assent Johnson will propose a GE it's now up to Corbyn. For several years Corbyn and other Labour leaders have demanded a GE but when proposed they bottled it and laid down a pre condition which by Friday night will have been met. On Monday if Corbyn again declines to support a GE I think he is finished. However the feeling is that he will agree however there is a fly in the ointment. Remain rebels led by Keir Starmer are saying a GE can only be held at a later date chiefly because they are scared they will lose. So there is a possibility that Corbyn will face his own back bench revolt on Monday with Labour MPs sitting on their hands. Of course if we get one on the 15 Oct and Johnson wins he will repeal the extension but then he will have to face blocking in the Lords, but one problem at a time. Last night on LBC they said that Stephen Kinnock's motion to bring back Theresa May's bill for a 4th time went through unopposed. I haven't seen confirmation of this. If true Kinnock and some other MPs want another vote because they are scared that they will lose their seats so now they want to vote for it. We may still end up with May's deal then at some point. As they used to say in Soap "Confused you will be".
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 19 8.36am |
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Originally posted by dreamwaverider
When the referendum was carried out, I am sure very few of us understood the complexities of our constitution and the inabilities of our system to ever agree on a method of leaving. Our system has shown conclusively that on a 50/50 result or close to it represented similarly by the politicians we will NEVER arrive at a solution on which parliament will agree. An election (which has already been disagreed) would merely bring us back to the same place. The problem with that is you’re dividing the leave vote, unless you say that if the leave with the deal negotiated scoops up the no deal vote if the negotiated deal vote is higher. I agree with your thinking in the circumstances now but with that vote remain will win so pointless having.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 05 Sep 19 8.47am |
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Originally posted by Matov
So it looked like we will not be leaving on the 31st but that we will have an election. Good. This needs sorting. As things stand, my vote will be cast solely on the Brexit issue. If the Brexit party stand a candidate in my constituency then he or she will get my vote. If the Brexit Party decide to stand aside for the Tories, based on a definite pledge that we leave with no deal, then I vote for them. However in the event of a second referendum with Remain still on the ballot I will refuse to legitimise it by taking part. I would rather see the inevitable break up of the UK than allow myself to take part in that farce. Still, let us cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, let us get a GE underway and see how the die land. All to play for still. Farage is still saying this. How can Boris exit the U.K. without a deal if it’s been blocked by law in Parliament? If he gets a majority Parliament can he undo all of these knots of the last few days (to halt and prevent us leaving). Yep, remain being in another referendum will be the biggest joke. Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 Sep 2019 9.02am)
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jeeagles  05 Sep 19 8.50am |
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The Tories will gain a majority, reverse all the votes we have currently had, and it will be back to where we were a couple of days ago. People need to realise that we have no route back into the EU and need to try and get the best deal possible. You won't get a good deal if you rule out a no-deal or publish operation yellowhammer reports. It's likely our MEP's will now take there seats and could cause havoc, which could strengthen our negotiating position as the EU will be keen to get rid of us.
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| Matov 05 Sep 19 8.57am |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
It's likely our MEP's will now take there seats and could cause havoc, which could strengthen our negotiating position as the EU will be keen to get rid of us. Or else any extension is vetoed by a member state. That would be ideal.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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