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May 1 2024 8.47am

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 18 Sep 19 1.59pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

A fair point. But we had a vote on June 23rd 2016. A simple question. Two options. Leave or Remain. And more people voted for the former than the later.

I believe passionately that has to be acted upon. That failure to do so puts everything at risk that I have been bought up to believe in as sacrosanct in terms of how this country is run.

That voting is crucial. That votes have to count and that if you lose, you wipe your mouth and move on.

And to see that mocked and belittled by people such as yourself does enrage me in a way that very little else ever has because you want me to vote again because you did not like the outcome.

If it is madness to believe that 52 is a larger percentage than 48 then I wear the label with pride. And will do so to my dying day.

And deep down, I genuinely believe that most Remainers, if they were completely honest, believe me. That actually it is them that have lost all reason and rationale. Because what you want is simply beyond logical comprehension. You are willing to smash the most basic principles upon which our system of Governance is based.

But they have lost their s***. Become so wrapped up in this ludicrous notion of European Citizenship that they have thrown any semblance of logical thought out of the window.

For the effort alone a round of applause.....

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 18 Sep 19 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


On the face of it then it appears a straight forward case because the executive are entitled to do this and in light of how long it has been since a Queens speech, you could argue that it is long over-due.

And for me the most pertinent question asked yesterday was if MP's were so outraged by what the PM did, why the lack of a vote of confidence? The HoC has a valid mechanism in place, and given the current mathematic a good chance of it working.

What makes me smile about any and every Remainer claim about their desire to uphold the democratic process is that they could bring down this Government tomorrow. They have a PM offering them a GE to settle this Brexit issue and yet they refuse. That is the genuine scandal in all of this.

They accuse the PM of abusing Parliamentary procedure and to an extent they are right. But this only came about on the back of the likes of Bercow trampling all over the conventions they proclaim to love so much and Judges already overstepping the mark as well. And then, after constantly claiming how desperate they are for a GE, bottle it.

Make no bones about it, this truly is a battle for the UK's future. What is happening at the moment will be discussed in a 100 years time plus, taught as a turning point in the UK's future.

The Remain establishment do not care about your vote. They genuinely want people to become disillusioned with the entire process because then they think they get their way. They have no desire to put their views to the public in anything else other than a rigged electoral process and they have, on the evidence so far on offer, zero intention of ever allowing us to vote in a meaningful way again on this Brexit question.

Effectively Remainers are holding the country to hostage. Trying to tie up in knots the mandate given on June 23rd for our country to leave the EU.

Loathe them for that. Hate them. Because we are rapidly approaching the point of no return. Even if they get their way and by this time next year we are still not only in the EU but with A50 revoked then the struggle continues. It never, ever goes away.

And what puzzles me this the most. That they actually want this mayhem to continue because surely they cannot imagine it goes away because they manage to over-throw the 17 million plus who voted 'Leave'. That somehow they think that we will all just slink away, nurse our wounds and never try to rock the boat again?

This combination of Remainer arrogance and rank stupidity is breath-taking. Absolutely stunning. Because this inability to accept that 52 beats 48 in % terms, and that this is a democratic mandate that cannot be brushed aside, is beyond moronic. Remain is no longer a valid position to hold but merely a manifestation of a mental illness.

Ego writ large in a manner that holds the potential to destroy this country. And they don't get that.

We have a Government that wants us to leave the EU on the back of the vote on June 23rd 2016. It has offered a Parliament a chance to put that stance to the ultimate test with a General Election. And Parliament is declining that in favour of a legal processs that people increasingly have no faith in.

That Remainers would rather trust a panel of judges, drawn from the narrowest of social classes, than the British people. Says it all.

Excellent post again Matov.

If the Supreme Court finds against Boris they will have to explain what law he has broken, there isn't one.

This is a matter of parliamentary procedure, conventions and privilege. I have no doubt that Boris' actions were to suit his agenda and I am sure that every PM before him did the same thing.

It seems that the key argument against him is what if a PM prorogued parliament indefinitely?

The answer is that parliament had the opportunity to stop this they could have called for a vote of no confidence or even passed a bill they didn't. Instead of Parliament sorting this mess out they have run to the courts for recourse.

I hope that the SC uses it's common sense and doesn't get involved. If it does be ready for further legal actions in years to come.

Assuming the action fails that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I would hope that in the future when sanity returns to parliament they look at executive privilege and also the fixed term parliament act.

These is a case for putting restrictions on the PM but not this way, constitutional changes need to be thought through. I give you the fixed term parliament act as an example of bad legislation. It now means we have a government that can't govern and an opposition that won't or can't govern and a parliament that won't agree to a GE.

Way to go MP's.

 


One more point

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 18 Sep 19 3.00pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Do you really have that much trouble with the truth?

For what I wrote is not just an opinion. It's the truth. All of it is out in plain sight in the public domain. Mrs Miller has no connection anymore to "Best for Britain" who are not involved in her court case.

It seems that you do, so do as I said before and take your medication and then come back and debate properly rather than your know it all attitude!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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W12 18 Sep 19 3.09pm

Originally posted by Matov

A fair point. But we had a vote on June 23rd 2016. A simple question. Two options. Leave or Remain. And more people voted for the former than the later.

I believe passionately that has to be acted upon. That failure to do so puts everything at risk that I have been bought up to believe in as sacrosanct in terms of how this country is run.

That voting is crucial. That votes have to count and that if you lose, you wipe your mouth and move on.

And to see that mocked and belittled by people such as yourself does enrage me in a way that very little else ever has because you want me to vote again because you did not like the outcome.

If it is madness to believe that 52 is a larger percentage than 48 then I wear the label with pride. And will do so to my dying day.

And deep down, I genuinely believe that most Remainers, if they were completely honest, believe me. That actually it is them that have lost all reason and rationale. Because what you want is simply beyond logical comprehension. You are willing to smash the most basic principles upon which our system of Governance is based.

But they have lost their s***. Become so wrapped up in this ludicrous notion of European Citizenship that they have thrown any semblance of logical thought out of the window.

Screw the remoaners, I agree they have stopped at nothing due to any risk that they might be less well off or might simply be proved wrong. It's a fundamentally immoral position.

Even Robert Mugabe is getting a better press than Boris Johnson just because he is getting in their way as they see it.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 3.10pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

A fair point. But we had a vote on June 23rd 2016. A simple question. Two options. Leave or Remain. And more people voted for the former than the later.

They did. It was a question which with hindsight was too simple. 3 years have since passed during which time it has become clear that such a question could not be answered with a straight, yes or no. It's Parliament's task to decide the how we leave and so far, they have not found a way they can accept.

I believe passionately that has to be acted upon. That failure to do so puts everything at risk that I have been bought up to believe in as sacrosanct in terms of how this country is run.

In that you are 100% wrong. We don't do things via a direct democracy. We do things via a representative democracy. One that undertook to respect the result but also one that can change their mind, if they believe to do is right. What you, or I, believe passionately is irrelevant.

That voting is crucial. That votes have to count and that if you lose, you wipe your mouth and move on.

In a GE, yes. In a referendum, no

And to see that mocked and belittled by people such as yourself does enrage me in a way that very little else ever has because you want me to vote again because you did not like the outcome.

We ought always to vote in a GE. That's our democratic duty. Referendums less so.

If it is madness to believe that 52 is a larger percentage than 48 then I wear the label with pride. And will do so to my dying day.

What's the point? If it was 99% and 1% and it was still impossible for Parliament to agree how to proceed then the same situation would apply.

And deep down, I genuinely believe that most Remainers, if they were completely honest, believe me. That actually it is them that have lost all reason and rationale. Because what you want is simply beyond logical comprehension. You are willing to smash the most basic principles upon which our system of Governance is based.

That's just hyperbole. Those fighting this don't all do because they want to remain. Some want to put that option back on the table now the electorate have had more time to consider and more information to use but most are just concerned to avoid unnecessary harm and protect British democracy.

But they have lost their s***. Become so wrapped up in this ludicrous notion of European Citizenship that they have thrown any semblance of logical thought out of the window.

More hyperbole.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 3.15pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

It seems that you do, so do as I said before and take your medication and then come back and debate properly rather than your know it all attitude!

When you engage with the truth and address the actual subject I might.

Not for the first time when challenged by actual facts you resort to attempted insult.

Trying to throw mud at those who point out your mistakes is not debate. It might be what Trump does but it just makes both you and him look ridiculous.

If you want to carry on digging your hole then carry on. It won't bother me in the slightest.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 3.32pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Excellent post again Matov.

That's a matter of opinion.

If the Supreme Court finds against Boris they will have to explain what law he has broken, there isn't one.

You can be very confident that they will do just that.

This is a matter of parliamentary procedure, conventions and privilege. I have no doubt that Boris' actions were to suit his agenda and I am sure that every PM before him did the same thing.

That is a neat summary of the government argument. Whether it is accepted remains to be seen.

It seems that the key argument against him is what if a PM prorogued parliament indefinitely?

It's certainly one of the arguments but the key one seems to me whether this is a matter for the Courts to determine. I thought the advocate speaking for Mrs Miller yesterday put a powerful case as to why it is, and the whispers appear to be that at the moment the Court agrees with him. Never forget that we have only had the Supreme Court for less than 10 years and there has not been a controversial prorogation since then. We are in uncharted territory. It's really important stuff. Time will tell.


The answer is that parliament had the opportunity to stop this they could have called for a vote of no confidence or even passed a bill they didn't. Instead of Parliament sorting this mess out they have run to the courts for recourse.

That's another argument but one that is easily countered by the fact that time was short and they had the need to get through even more pressing legislation without trying to pass additional laws designed to stop the PM from prorogation which would then no doubt be subject to legal hurdles too.

I hope that the SC uses it's common sense and doesn't get involved. If it does be ready for further legal actions in years to come.

I hope they do because our democracy depends on them doing so and I think they realise that.

Assuming the action fails that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. I would hope that in the future when sanity returns to parliament they look at executive privilege and also the fixed term parliament act.

These is a case for putting restrictions on the PM but not this way, constitutional changes need to be thought through. I give you the fixed term parliament act as an example of bad legislation. It now means we have a government that can't govern and an opposition that won't or can't govern and a parliament that won't agree to a GE.

You may be right. I don't think the Court will act in any way which attempts to over-ride the legislature. It may well issue some comments and even perhaps an injunction but leave the door open for Parliament to walk through.

Way to go MP's.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 18 Sep 19 3.41pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I trust no one would argue that the political balance on this forum leans heavily to the right.

Are you of the belief that all left leaning people voted remain and all right leaning voted to leave.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 18 Sep 19 3.45pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Are you of the belief that all left leaning people voted remain and all right leaning voted to leave.

Of course not. This issue has split the standard political tribes if not in half then substantially.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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W12 18 Sep 19 3.50pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Are you of the belief that all left leaning people voted remain and all right leaning voted to leave.

It's a division between people that believe in the laws, traditions, principles, values, culture and people of this country and the people that don't.

Edited by W12 (18 Sep 2019 3.51pm)

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 18 Sep 19 3.52pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

British PM Johnson ‘only recently realised full meaning of single market’ for the first time.

Boris Johnson is said by an EU official to have “slumped in his chair” at a lunch in Luxembourg on Monday when the reality of how difficult it would be to strike a Brexit deal dawned on him.

One official said Mr Johnson had a “penny-dropping” moment when he was told that replacing the Irish backstop would not prevent customs checks that cross the border with Ireland.


No one would have known how hard and how much small print will be involved in leaving.
That includes the eu.
Your smiley faces of glee is rather childish bearing in mind we will leave.
There will be a cloth involved to wipe them smiles away when the time comes.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 18 Sep 19 3.55pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course not. This issue has split the standard political tribes if not in half then substantially.

What is a standard political tribe.
From listening and reading it appears many millions vote on a manifesto and not a party.
Only about 30% stick rigidly to a 'tribe'.
Where do the other 70% sit politically then.

 

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