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John McDonnell says -Trust Labour with the economy

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 14 Mar 16 4.39pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Probably true to an extent, given that New Labour adopted a right of centre position, and favoured corporations over the electorate.

However, one could argue, if the Conservatives were doing such a good job, they wouldn't have suffered such a humiliating defeat in 1997.

One could, but it was more likely a symptom of being in power for a long period. The economy was in fairly good shape under that Tory Government, not something one has ever been able to say about a losing Labour regime.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 Mar 2016 4.40pm)

 

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Hoof Hearted 15 Mar 16 9.45am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Ah its all the tories hard work. So why did they do so badly at the General election. The voters clearly were wrong then, but now are right? The mistake has always been to believe that political parties in the UK have the best interests of the public and country at heart.

Its so lucky that the Conservatives had done so well at hitting their fiscal targets, and eliminating deficit, bringing down spending and so on. I wouldn't trust them with the economy either.

In terms of the PFI schemes, I'm inclined to agree, it wasn't a great plan, but the successive cuts and under spending by government over the previous decade created a massive problem that hadn't been addressed. Plus PFI also injected a massive boost into the UK tech industry - I'm surprised so many Conservative Voters regard PFI as something terrible, I'm pretty sure they benefited from it.

The problem of course, was it was more false economics, because ultimately it had to be paid for.

But then we're now back into the rounds of cuts with the promise of 'no impact on services' nonsense, as absurd to me as the idea that you can fund services without paying for them.


John Major and the rest of his cabinet were to blame for the 97 landslide.

The country had been governed by the Conservatives for 18 years and fancied a change - but Major was a "Major Turn Off"... LOL.

His back to basics campaign whilst shagging Edwina Curry showed he was not a man to be trusted, which he wasn't as he had plotted Thatcher's downfall.

Major was most definitely the worst conservative PM in my living history.

What isn't in doubt though was that at the point Blair/Brown took over, the economy was in apple pie order!

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Mar 16 10.01am

And they kept it in apple pie order, for longer than any other government in history, as well as seeing booms in the technology sector. That's what you expect surely of a government, the capacity to sustain. Of course they also, like the Conservatives before them, involved in deregulation of banking - which ultimately led to a disastrous end of the economy.

Brown was a f**king terrible prime minister, but he seemed to do fairly well as Treasurer, objectively speaking (and I hate Brown and Blair more than you do I suspect).

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Blair or Brown, but it does kind of reject the notion that labour by default can't be trusted on the economy when they had the longest spell of growth and prosperity, which itself was only undone by a economic meltdown created in very unreliable private industry.

If we can't trust anyone with the economy, its private enterprise.

 


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Hoof Hearted 15 Mar 16 11.47am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

And they kept it in apple pie order, for longer than any other government in history, as well as seeing booms in the technology sector. That's what you expect surely of a government, the capacity to sustain. Of course they also, like the Conservatives before them, involved in deregulation of banking - which ultimately led to a disastrous end of the economy.

Brown was a f**king terrible prime minister, but he seemed to do fairly well as Treasurer, objectively speaking (and I hate Brown and Blair more than you do I suspect).

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Blair or Brown, but it does kind of reject the notion that labour by default can't be trusted on the economy when they had the longest spell of growth and prosperity, which itself was only undone by a economic meltdown created in very unreliable private industry.

If we can't trust anyone with the economy, its private enterprise.

But they didn't keep it in apple pie order though did they Jamie.

For a start Brown sold our Gold reserves at an all time low price - schoolboy error!

You have already conceded earlier in the thread the way Brown funded the building of schools and hospitals by PFi wasn't a "great plan" to use your very words. The cost to our economy is still being felt now.

How much money did they waste on the Millennium Dome project FFS?

Blair/Brown's tax reforms like tax credit and child credit was another lame idea that has grown out of all proportion and should never have been introduced as it has ended up being a millstone around our necks.

They might have enjoyed a long period of prosperity, but instead of making hay while the sun shines they made some pretty basic mistakes that have caused long term grief that is difficult to undo.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Mar 16 12.09pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

But they didn't keep it in apple pie order though did they Jamie.

For a start Brown sold our Gold reserves at an all time low price - schoolboy error!

You have already conceded earlier in the thread the way Brown funded the building of schools and hospitals by PFi wasn't a "great plan" to use your very words. The cost to our economy is still being felt now.

How much money did they waste on the Millennium Dome project FFS?

Blair/Brown's tax reforms like tax credit and child credit was another lame idea that has grown out of all proportion and should never have been introduced as it has ended up being a millstone around our necks.

They might have enjoyed a long period of prosperity, but instead of making hay while the sun shines they made some pretty basic mistakes that have caused long term grief that is difficult to undo.

Yes, but then so have the assorted Conservative Parties over the years experienced recessions, and been plagued by boom and bust etc. Not sure about working tax credits and Child tax credits necessarily - again the problem generally remains not raising taxation in line with expenditure (something the Conservative party aren't good at either).

We're still enjoying the Conservatives selling off of private utility companies and council housing. As for PFI, there was a necessity for spending on public services produced by the underfunding and cuts of previous conservative governments - especially where fringe areas such as mental health were concerned. Care in the Community remains one of the most cynical reductions of public spending, directly linked to the rise in homelessness in the 80s and early 90s.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 16 12.35pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Yes, but then so have the assorted Conservative Parties over the years experienced recessions, and been plagued by boom and bust etc. Not sure about working tax credits and Child tax credits necessarily - again the problem generally remains not raising taxation in line with expenditure (something the Conservative party aren't good at either).

We're still enjoying the Conservatives selling off of private utility companies and council housing. As for PFI, there was a necessity for spending on public services produced by the underfunding and cuts of previous conservative governments - especially where fringe areas such as mental health were concerned. Care in the Community remains one of the most cynical reductions of public spending, directly linked to the rise in homelessness in the 80s and early 90s.


The basic difference between Labour and Conservative economic policy through history is that one was unsustainable and the other tried to fix the former.

 

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View leifandersonshair's Profile leifandersonshair Flag Newport 15 Mar 16 12.56pm Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


The basic difference between Labour and Conservative economic policy through history is that one was unsustainable and the other tried to fix the former.

Catch 22- can't trust Labour with the economy, or Tories with the NHS and public services.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Mar 16 1.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


The basic difference between Labour and Conservative economic policy through history is that one was unsustainable and the other tried to fix the former.

Basically a reverse of social policy then, which pays for Conservative economic policy.

 


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View blind eagle's Profile blind eagle Flag Covington.Tennessee 15 Mar 16 1.38pm Send a Private Message to blind eagle Add blind eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I didn't dare put a link to the Daily Mail becks.... that's why I chose the Guardian's report.

Bert the Head would have crucified me!

I expected the Mail to trash Labour on this, but interesting to note that the Guardian wasn't that positive either?

Says a lot about Corbyn's team and their credibility if a pro left paper isn't bigging them up on a story like this?

Is there really any credibility? You cannot turn manure into something more useful!.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 16 4.47pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Catch 22- can't trust Labour with the economy, or Tories with the NHS and public services.

There seems to be a fantasy among some that the NHS is sustainable in it's current form and that the constant extra demands on it caused through immigration,an aging population and wider services can be funded without greater taxation or use of private companies. This is a socialist pipe dream.
The NHS was created using borrowed money and is now a creaking disaster waiting to happen that is kicked around by the usual suspects for political point scoring.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Mar 2016 4.48pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Mar 16 4.52pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Basically a reverse of social policy then, which pays for Conservative economic policy.

Not sure what you mean. Social policy paid for by borrowed money and overspending is an unsustainable policy. What if Labour were to be in power indefinitely? what would ultimately happen I wonder.

Orwell has an idea.

 

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View leifandersonshair's Profile leifandersonshair Flag Newport 15 Mar 16 6.59pm Send a Private Message to leifandersonshair Add leifandersonshair as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There seems to be a fantasy among some that the NHS is sustainable in it's current form and that the constant extra demands on it caused through immigration,an aging population and wider services can be funded without greater taxation or use of private companies. This is a socialist pipe dream.
The NHS was created using borrowed money and is now a creaking disaster waiting to happen that is kicked around by the usual suspects for political point scoring.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Mar 2016 4.48pm)

Sounds like you've bought into the Tory line then. The NHS is being purposely underfunded to aid eventual privatization. We spend less on health (as a % of GDP) than most leading European countries.

The NHS is not perfect. It does have to change to meet the needs of an ageing population. However, if you asked people whether they'd pay an extra penny per pound in tax to keep the NHS funded, they'd be happy to. It is not a 'socialist pipe dream' (showing your bias there!).

Privatization would be disastrous, as it always is.

 

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