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The importance of continuity in management

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View Podyonkers's Profile Podyonkers Flag Atlanta, Georgia 23 Sep 16 7.25am Send a Private Message to Podyonkers Add Podyonkers as a friend

As we've seen lately, discussions about the manager seem to bring about a lot of tension and disagreement. Some love Pardew, some don't. But I wonder if we should be talking about the length of time we should be giving any manager of the club?

Say what you will about Arsenal and Wenger, they have enjoyed a sustained period of competence/excellence. Man U. stuck with Ferguson, and were greatly rewarded for it - and they have struggled for stability ever since he left. Contrast that with, say, Newcastle or Villa who can't ever stick with a manager, and it seems to me that it's a good idea to aim for continuity.

Let's say for the sake of argument we are not talking about Pardew but about any manager: how long is too long if we are struggling? Do we stick with a manager no matter what, or get rid of them if everything goes too far South?

Personally, I have a lot of patience (and hope). But I understand if others are more demanding - that is not a bad thing. For me, I would stay with a manager even through relegation. I would be okay with allowing a manager to stay as long as they brought us right back up. After that, I'd knock it on the head and start again.

 


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citizensmudge Flag midlands 23 Sep 16 7.46am

If you haven't designed this to kick off another anti vs pro Pardew borefest then you must be new here or just felt like having some "Thank F@ck Its Friday" amusement for the day.I'm off to bed but I look forward to seeing where this has ended up later depending on whether someone is stupid enough to light the blue touch paper.Have a nice day everyone

 

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View james03's Profile james03 Flag Bangkok 23 Sep 16 8.11am Send a Private Message to james03 Add james03 as a friend

The amount of time given to any manager who is struggling to get results is down to the directors of the club.

We can all guess, many have supposed ITK pals and most of us will read the newspapers or social media reports at some time or another (and not have a clue as to their veracity). However, we really know nothing of what is going on behind the scenes.

If a manager has 'lost the dressing room' then the Board will know long before we do. If the club rules are being ignored or getting lax then the Board will know before we do. If any number of issues relating to results are not being addressed then the Board will know before we do.

It therefore comes down mainly to what the Board think of the way things are being managed throughout the squad. It is they who will know if there is a problem or if poor results are something that will inevitably change for the better if we stick to whoever is the boss at the time.

Therefore, IMO, there is no specific length of time a manager is given, that is simply a 'how long is a piece of string' question.

 


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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 23 Sep 16 8.34am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

In terms of Wenger I think Arsenal did the 'Double' a couple of years after he was appointed.They of course haven't won the PL for 12 years.
I think after Wenger the longest serving manager is Exeter's Paul Tisdale who has been manager for 10 years.

It took Ferguson, 3 years to win his first trophy (That FA Cup !) and 6 years to win the PL. The rest as they say is history.

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 23 Sep 16 9.20am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Podyonkers

As we've seen lately, discussions about the manager seem to bring about a lot of tension and disagreement. Some love Pardew, some don't. But I wonder if we should be talking about the length of time we should be giving any manager of the club?

Say what you will about Arsenal and Wenger, they have enjoyed a sustained period of competence/excellence. Man U. stuck with Ferguson, and were greatly rewarded for it - and they have struggled for stability ever since he left. Contrast that with, say, Newcastle or Villa who can't ever stick with a manager, and it seems to me that it's a good idea to aim for continuity.

Let's say for the sake of argument we are not talking about Pardew but about any manager: how long is too long if we are struggling? Do we stick with a manager no matter what, or get rid of them if everything goes too far South?

Personally, I have a lot of patience (and hope). But I understand if others are more demanding - that is not a bad thing. For me, I would stay with a manager even through relegation. I would be okay with allowing a manager to stay as long as they brought us right back up. After that, I'd knock it on the head and start again.

The same could also be said of Moyes during his long spell at Everton.

As is always the case during a long stint there are peaks and troughs...but that's largely due to the time it takes for a Manager to stamp his own identity on a club, its playing style, staff and recruitment.

 


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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 23 Sep 16 9.32am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

The same could also be said of Moyes during his long spell at Everton.

As is always the case during a long stint there are peaks and troughs...but that's largely due to the time it takes for a Manager to stamp his own identity on a club, its playing style, staff and recruitment.

But as we know, managers are not afforded this "Time".
I read that the average tenure of a manager in the professional game in England is about one and a quarter years.In terms of the PL, taking Wenger out of the equation, the average is just over this.Bit shorter for the Championship.

 

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View Part Time James's Profile Part Time James Flag 23 Sep 16 9.37am Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by Podyonkers

As we've seen lately, discussions about the manager seem to bring about a lot of tension and disagreement. Some love Pardew, some don't. But I wonder if we should be talking about the length of time we should be giving any manager of the club?

Say what you will about Arsenal and Wenger, they have enjoyed a sustained period of competence/excellence. Man U. stuck with Ferguson, and were greatly rewarded for it - and they have struggled for stability ever since he left. Contrast that with, say, Newcastle or Villa who can't ever stick with a manager, and it seems to me that it's a good idea to aim for continuity.

Let's say for the sake of argument we are not talking about Pardew but about any manager: how long is too long if we are struggling? Do we stick with a manager no matter what, or get rid of them if everything goes too far South?

Personally, I have a lot of patience (and hope). But I understand if others are more demanding - that is not a bad thing. For me, I would stay with a manager even through relegation. I would be okay with allowing a manager to stay as long as they brought us right back up. After that, I'd knock it on the head and start again.

For what it's worth, and before anyone comes in with an emotive opinion, I completely agree with you. I'm more in the pro-Pardew camp than the anti, he still has a lot to do to prove himself in my eyes, but, like you, I agree with being a bit patient.

 




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View PALACE FOR EVER's Profile PALACE FOR EVER Flag London 23 Sep 16 9.58am Send a Private Message to PALACE FOR EVER Add PALACE FOR EVER as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

The same could also be said of Moyes during his long spell at Everton.

As is always the case during a long stint there are peaks and troughs...but that's largely due to the time it takes for a Manager to stamp his own identity on a club, its playing style, staff and recruitment.

Yes, there are peaks and troughs and as a manager has a good season so any seasons after that where a club doesn't do as well then some fans aren't pleased but they would of been before that good season, the bar goes higher to what is deemed a successful season, especially now with social media. Wenger being a good example. A lot of the time the manager is in a no-win situation.

 


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View MandurahEagle's Profile MandurahEagle Flag Mandurah 23 Sep 16 10.07am Send a Private Message to MandurahEagle Add MandurahEagle as a friend

I agree that patience is called for as a Manager is not able to predict injuries which take key players out. Pardew has his heart in Palace unlike previous managers like Bruce and Pulis!

 

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View victor43's Profile victor43 Flag St. Albans 23 Sep 16 10.20am Send a Private Message to victor43 Add victor43 as a friend

With Fergie he was given a fair amount of time, but if he had continued to struggle at the beginning (and not beat us in the Cup), there's no way he would have last 20 odd years.

Same for Wenger.

I think it helps to be patient but to be patient you need to trust your manager that they have some sort of plan to improve things.

Ideally you have a model like Southampton where regardless of the manager you have a consistent recruitment policy for players and try to get similar managers in. I've heard they always have a list of managers that can replace their current one if he leaves for whatever reason.

The amount of player and manager turnover they've had in the last 5 years and continue to be the best of the rest in the prem is amazing.

 


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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 23 Sep 16 10.30am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by victor43

With Fergie he was given a fair amount of time, but if he had continued to struggle at the beginning (and not beat us in the Cup), there's no way he would have last 20 odd years.

Same for Wenger.

I think it helps to be patient but to be patient you need to trust your manager that they have some sort of plan to improve things.

Ideally you have a model like Southampton where regardless of the manager you have a consistent recruitment policy for players and try to get similar managers in. I've heard they always have a list of managers that can replace their current one if he leaves for whatever reason.

The amount of player and manager turnover they've had in the last 5 years and continue to be the best of the rest in the prem is amazing.

In terms of managers they have had 4 managers in the last 5 years : Adkins, Pochettino, Koeman and now Puel.

Their 'Director of football', Les Reed does very well behind the scenes.

Also they have the infrastructure in place : Good ground, academy, scouting, analysis etc etc.

Edited by Willo (23 Sep 2016 10.35am)

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 23 Sep 16 11.40am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

But as we know, managers are not afforded this "Time".
I read that the average tenure of a manager in the professional game in England is about one and a quarter years.In terms of the PL, taking Wenger out of the equation, the average is just over this.Bit shorter for the Championship.

I think that was the point the OP was making to be honest

 


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