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Orgreave

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Nov 16 6.48am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Government rules out an inquiry into the Battle of Orgreave:

[Link]

There were no deaths and no wrongful convictions. The police had a difficult job to do in the face of the tactics of the strikers. It seems, to the cynically minded, that it is a tactic to try and discredit the Thatcher government and drag up the sentiment of the Miners Strike to attempt to whip up industrial action.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Kingvagabond's Profile Kingvagabond Flag London 01 Nov 16 7.05am Send a Private Message to Kingvagabond Add Kingvagabond as a friend

Police used as an instrument of the state. Police assaulting strikers. Police proven to commit perjury. Police proven to have falsely imprisoned 74 strikers. Many of the same officers and top brass involved as hillsbrough. Media proven to have lied through their back teeth. Politicians proven to have lied through their back teeth. What reason could their possibly be to want an inquiry? How could anyone possibly discredit Thatcher's government?

 


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Quote cornwalls palace at 24 Oct 2012 9.37am

He was right!!!...and we killed him!!... poor Orpinton Eagles........

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Nov 16 7.24am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by Kingvagabond

Police used as an instrument of the state. Police assaulting strikers. Police proven to commit perjury. Police proven to have falsely imprisoned 74 strikers. Many of the same officers and top brass involved as hillsbrough. Media proven to have lied through their back teeth. Politicians proven to have lied through their back teeth. What reason could their possibly be to want an inquiry? How could anyone possibly discredit Thatcher's government?

And of course none of the strikers were overly aggressive and having a go at the Police, using unnecessary violence?

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 01 Nov 16 7.43am Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

And of course none of the strikers were overly aggressive and having a go at the Police, using unnecessary violence?

Which is why we need an equity. No one convicted get hundreds kept on remand beer on falsified police evidence. To do nothing does nothing to offer closure here.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Nov 16 8.28am

Originally posted by matt_himself

And of course none of the strikers were overly aggressive and having a go at the Police, using unnecessary violence?

I'd imagine there may have been one or two but people don't think all palace fans are nobbers because you are.

The whole thing is an establishment stitch up.

Edited by nickgusset (01 Nov 2016 8.29am)

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Nov 16 8.39am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

[Link]

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Nov 16 8.51am

Read it and digest Matthew, read and digest.

 

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legaleagle Flag 01 Nov 16 9.02am

Those who dismiss the concerns about Orgreave seemingly just because of political bias (ie only the left's actions/errors should be subject to review) should IMO be ashamed of themselves and show their true colours as biased propagandists.

If this wasn't a clear cut case of seeming way OTT state-sponsored violence and abuse of police powers,nothing ever will be...

"A former police officer who was at the 1984 “Battle of Orgreave” says police had been told to use “as much force as possible” against striking miners.
Police clashed with miners at the Orgreave coke plant in South Yorkshire, on 18 June – and campaigners want a new inquiry into policing on the day.
The ex-Merseyside constable told the BBC senior officers “were anticipating trouble and in some ways relishing it”.

...Speaking to the BBC, the officer – who asked to remain anonymous – said senior South Yorkshire Police officers briefed them the night before the 18 June clashes.
He was among about 6,000 officers called in to bolster police ranks protecting the Orgreave coke works.

“They were anticipating trouble and in some ways relishing it and looking forward to it,” he said.
“It was a licence to do what we wanted, which I didn’t think was right because we didn’t know what was going to happen.”
He said officers had been ordered to charge a largely peaceful crowd.
“There were running battles and miners were falling over and police officers were batoning them,” the officer said.
“I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I was just seeing police officers attack people. These were people on the ground and even if they weren’t doing anything – just walking away – police officers had their batons and they were just hitting people.”

Stefan Wysocki was one of the 95 miners who was arrested at Orgreave. He was accused of throwing a stone.
He said: “They marched me back down the hill to the line of police officers with shields and bounced me off them. The line opened up and they knocked ten bells of crap out of me. I was punched and kicked.”
Most of the miners were charged with riot or unlawful assembly.
They had faced long prison sentences, but the case collapsed in court a year later and they were all cleared. There have been allegations that police officers had been told what to write in their statements to justify more serious charges."

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Nov 16 9.11am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by legaleagle

Those who dismiss the concerns about Orgreave seemingly just because of political bias (ie only the left's actions/errors should be subject to review) should IMO be ashamed of themselves and show their true colours as biased propagandists.

If this wasn't a clear cut case of seeming way OTT state-sponsored violence and abuse of police powers,nothing ever will be...

"A former police officer who was at the 1984 “Battle of Orgreave” says police had been told to use “as much force as possible” against striking miners.
Police clashed with miners at the Orgreave coke plant in South Yorkshire, on 18 June – and campaigners want a new inquiry into policing on the day.
The ex-Merseyside constable told the BBC senior officers “were anticipating trouble and in some ways relishing it”.

...Speaking to the BBC, the officer – who asked to remain anonymous – said senior South Yorkshire Police officers briefed them the night before the 18 June clashes.
He was among about 6,000 officers called in to bolster police ranks protecting the Orgreave coke works.

“They were anticipating trouble and in some ways relishing it and looking forward to it,” he said.
“It was a licence to do what we wanted, which I didn’t think was right because we didn’t know what was going to happen.”
He said officers had been ordered to charge a largely peaceful crowd.
“There were running battles and miners were falling over and police officers were batoning them,” the officer said.
“I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I was just seeing police officers attack people. These were people on the ground and even if they weren’t doing anything – just walking away – police officers had their batons and they were just hitting people.”

Stefan Wysocki was one of the 95 miners who was arrested at Orgreave. He was accused of throwing a stone.
He said: “They marched me back down the hill to the line of police officers with shields and bounced me off them. The line opened up and they knocked ten bells of crap out of me. I was punched and kicked.”
Most of the miners were charged with riot or unlawful assembly.
They had faced long prison sentences, but the case collapsed in court a year later and they were all cleared. There have been allegations that police officers had been told what to write in their statements to justify more serious charges."

Three points I make to the above which 'justify my political bias [sic]':

1. The trouble started when the strikers charged the police I. Order to try and prevent lorries leaving the site;
2. If campaigners want an inquiry, why are they not campaigning for an inquiry on the Battle of Saltely Gate in '72? One can only hazard a guess that it was because he strikers smashed the f*** out of the police that day but justify it as part of a legitimate strike action, which in turn smacks of hypocrisy;
3. What good would an inquiry do? The Police force and way it operates is completely different from 1984. An inquiry is supposed to be held in order to not only assess but also effect change. Change isn't required here therefore one can only deduce that the motives for the inquiry are driven by political reasons. I repeat, no one died and there were no wrongful convictions. This is not the same scenario as Hillsborough.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 01 Nov 16 9.13am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

Three points I make to the above which 'justify my political bias [sic]':

1. The trouble started when the strikers charged the police I. Order to try and prevent lorries leaving the site;
2. If campaigners want an inquiry, why are they not campaigning for an inquiry on the Battle of Saltely Gate in '72? One can only hazard a guess that it was because he strikers smashed the f*** out of the police that day but justify it as part of a legitimate strike action, which in turn smacks of hypocrisy;
3. What good would an inquiry do? The Police force and way it operates is completely different from 1984. An inquiry is supposed to be held in order to not only assess but also effect change. Change isn't required here therefore one can only deduce that the motives for the inquiry are driven by political reasons. I repeat, no one died and there were no wrongful convictions. This is not the same scenario as Hillsborough.

Matt

Very good.
Here is a link :

[Link]

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Nov 16 9.31am

[Link]


The fall-out from Orgreave was considerable although it would be many years before its full truth was revealed. TV viewers were treated to scenes of mobs of violent thugs hurling bricks and stones before embattled mounted police moved in to disperse the offenders. Only it wasn’t like that at all. As Red Pepper reported, nearly thirty years after the event, “When broadcasting footage of Orgreave, the BBC, incredibly, transposed the sequence of events, making it appear that police cavalry charges had been a defensive response to antagonism by stone-throwing pickets rather than an act of aggression. Only in 1991 did the BBC issue an apology for this, claiming that its action footage had been “inadvertently reversed.” The publicly-funded, ‘neutral’ state broadcaster had reversed footage which, in its original form, showed cowering pickets with nowhere to run, desperately fending off charging police with whatever they had to hand. Given the pre-digital era of 1984, with physical tape being used for filming, which required conscious human cutting, splicing and chopping for editing purposes, one can view the BBC’s claims of the footage being “inadvertently reversed” with a degree of contempt.

The South Yorkshire Police didn’t stop at merely bludgeoning defenceless men, either. Ninety five pickets were arrested and charged with a number of offences. The most serious being charges of rioting and affray which carried sentences of upwards of ten years. In 1987 the trials soon collapsed in a welter of conflicting police evidence, fabricated statements and embarrassing inconsistencies. Although described by renowned QC, Michael Mansfield, as “the biggest frame-up ever,” no officers were ever investigated or charged. This was despite South Yorkshire Police being forced to hand over nearly half-a-million pounds in compensation to thirty nine of the arrested pickets and incurring costs of over £100,000.

 

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legaleagle Flag 01 Nov 16 9.35am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Three points I make to the above which 'justify my political bias [sic]':

1. The trouble started when the strikers charged the police I. Order to try and prevent lorries leaving the site;
2. If campaigners want an inquiry, why are they not campaigning for an inquiry on the Battle of Saltely Gate in '72? One can only hazard a guess that it was because he strikers smashed the f*** out of the police that day but justify it as part of a legitimate strike action, which in turn smacks of hypocrisy;
3. What good would an inquiry do? The Police force and way it operates is completely different from 1984. An inquiry is supposed to be held in order to not only assess but also effect change. Change isn't required here therefore one can only deduce that the motives for the inquiry are driven by political reasons. I repeat, no one died and there were no wrongful convictions. This is not the same scenario as Hillsborough.

In response to your numbering:

1.You appear not to have read carefully what the ex-police officer said in the piece I referred to

2.Attacking "ther left" in a generic manner about unconnected events is rather transparently unmeritorious,no?Deal wiyth Orgrerave on its own terms.

3. Where large numbers of people appear to have been brutally assaulted by police in our green and pleasant land and there indications large numbers of police were complicit in perjury and in people being unlawfully detained and charged,I would hope people might think (even 30 years on) that deserved thorough inquiry,both to set the record straight and as an example to encourage something similar to never happen again.

If you and Willo,see no merit in my points (presumably because they are not knocking the left or demanding an inquiry into the left's actions),so be it but I am less than impressed.If the following isn't a scandal,nothing is.

"Officers had arrested and charged 95 miners with riot, an offence of collective violence carrying a potential life sentence. Yet in July 1985 the prosecution withdrew and all the miners were were acquitted after the evidence of some police officers, including those in command, had been discredited under cross-examination.

In 1991 South Yorkshire police paid £425,000 compensation to 39 miners who had sued the force for assault, unlawful arrest and malicious prosecution. But still the police did not admit any fault, and not a single police officer was ever disciplined or prosecuted".

,,,in its report, finally published last month, the IPCC found “support for the allegation” that three senior police officers in command at Orgreave had “made up an untrue account exaggerating the degree of violence (in particular missile throwing)” from miners to justify their use of force and the charges of riot. The report said one of these most senior officers had his statement typed and witnessed by another officer who led a team of detectives which, the IPCC said, dictated those identical opening paragraphs of junior officers’ statements.The report says the BBC had indeed reversed footage in its news broadcast that night (to make it look like the miners started the violence) , an accusation the BBC has never officially accepted.

Explosively, the IPCC revealed for the first time that South Yorkshire police, when contemplating the civil claims, recognised there had been some excessive violence by officers and perjury in the trial that followed, but covered it up. The force settled the claims, the IPCC stated, “very much prompted” by senior officers’ knowledge of this misconduct."

Off to work now...

Edited by legaleagle (01 Nov 2016 9.36am)

 

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