Far right extremism / terrorism

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Mar 17 2.05pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Same way that Islamic terrorism exists because of UK state actions against Muslim countries? I'd rather not legitimise 'causes' that pursue no political agenda or party support, or movement. Right Wing extremists in the UK have generally been about attacking innocent, and often defenceless targets in the UK, usually on the basis of race or sexual orientation. Both far right and Islamic terrorism exist as a means of pursuing a campaign of hate and terror against sections of the community, with no real political motive. Neither has any real political agenda to which its wedded, and reveals its callous disregard by targeting against sections of the community it blames for its own 'persecution' complexes. Killing bystanders and civilians isn't political extremism, its c**ts taking out their own frustrations and failing, in the same way that bullies in the playground do. Islamic terrorism certainly does have an aim. As they have repeatedly stated, it is to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Mar 17 2.05pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Same way that Islamic terrorism exists because of UK state actions against Muslim countries? I'd rather not legitimise 'causes' that pursue no political agenda or party support, or movement.

Right Wing extremists in the UK have generally been about attacking innocent, and often defenceless targets in the UK, usually on the basis of race or sexual orientation.

Both far right and Islamic terrorism exist as a means of pursuing a campaign of hate and terror against sections of the community, with no real political motive. Neither has any real political agenda to which its wedded, and reveals its callous disregard by targeting against sections of the community it blames for its own 'persecution' complexes.

Killing bystanders and civilians isn't political extremism, its c**ts taking out their own frustrations and failing, in the same way that bullies in the playground do.

Islamic terrorism certainly does have an aim. As they have repeatedly stated, it is to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Mar 17 2.36pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Same way that Islamic terrorism exists because of UK state actions against Muslim countries? I'd rather not legitimise 'causes' that pursue no political agenda or party support, or movement. Right Wing extremists in the UK have generally been about attacking innocent, and often defenceless targets in the UK, usually on the basis of race or sexual orientation. Both far right and Islamic terrorism exist as a means of pursuing a campaign of hate and terror against sections of the community, with no real political motive. Neither has any real political agenda to which its wedded, and reveals its callous disregard by targeting against sections of the community it blames for its own 'persecution' complexes. Killing bystanders and civilians isn't political extremism, its c**ts taking out their own frustrations and failing, in the same way that bullies in the playground do. There is no legitimacy to any of it. Murdering civilians is just that. But irrespective of the lack of justification, the mental state of the perpetrators or our ill advised foreign policy, immigration has prompted a rise in right wing activity and invited potential terrorists here from abroad. It cannot be spun or intellectualised away. It is the uncomfortable truth for the liberal left and the government. This is what happens when people being murdered is seen as acceptable collateral damage in the pursuit of an agenda.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Mar 17 2.36pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Same way that Islamic terrorism exists because of UK state actions against Muslim countries? I'd rather not legitimise 'causes' that pursue no political agenda or party support, or movement.

Right Wing extremists in the UK have generally been about attacking innocent, and often defenceless targets in the UK, usually on the basis of race or sexual orientation.

Both far right and Islamic terrorism exist as a means of pursuing a campaign of hate and terror against sections of the community, with no real political motive. Neither has any real political agenda to which its wedded, and reveals its callous disregard by targeting against sections of the community it blames for its own 'persecution' complexes.

Killing bystanders and civilians isn't political extremism, its c**ts taking out their own frustrations and failing, in the same way that bullies in the playground do.

There is no legitimacy to any of it. Murdering civilians is just that.
But irrespective of the lack of justification, the mental state of the perpetrators or our ill advised foreign policy, immigration has prompted a rise in right wing activity and invited potential terrorists here from abroad. It cannot be spun or intellectualised away. It is the uncomfortable truth for the liberal left and the government.
This is what happens when people being murdered is seen as acceptable collateral damage in the pursuit of an agenda.

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Mar 17 2.47pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Arguably more by emigration from the UK. The far right though in the UK, has a history that predates large scale immigration, dating back into the 30s. But I think you're probably right, the Far Right these days, isn't likes of the Nazi Party or British Union of Fascists, who had actual real political agendas, intelligent arguments and policies. Its disaffected, hateful little s**ts who blame others for their own failure in life. That's what I meant. Immigration to Ireland by Protestants from Scotland and England causing huge resentment among the Catholic community. I don't think we can link justification for murderous acts to politics, personal issues or a higher intellect. There is no difference. They are all flawed and none can be more flawed or dangerous than one that is driven by religious delusions and a desire to spread those delusions. For all their limitations as human beings,the far right are not anti British or anti Western.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Mar 17 2.47pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Arguably more by emigration from the UK. The far right though in the UK, has a history that predates large scale immigration, dating back into the 30s.

But I think you're probably right, the Far Right these days, isn't likes of the Nazi Party or British Union of Fascists, who had actual real political agendas, intelligent arguments and policies. Its disaffected, hateful little s**ts who blame others for their own failure in life.

That's what I meant. Immigration to Ireland by Protestants from Scotland and England causing huge resentment among the Catholic community.

I don't think we can link justification for murderous acts to politics, personal issues or a higher intellect. There is no difference. They are all flawed and none can be more flawed or dangerous than one that is driven by religious delusions and a desire to spread those delusions.
For all their limitations as human beings,the far right are not anti British or anti Western.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Mar 17 3.26pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Islamic terrorism certainly does have an aim. As they have repeatedly stated, it is to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate. Not really, that's only really IS and Al-Qaeda. Its certainly not the objective of say Hamas or Hezbollah - which are tied to much more real world political ambitions (which make some sense outside the cloud cuckoo land of IS). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Mar 17 3.26pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Islamic terrorism certainly does have an aim. As they have repeatedly stated, it is to establish a worldwide Islamic caliphate.

Not really, that's only really IS and Al-Qaeda. Its certainly not the objective of say Hamas or Hezbollah - which are tied to much more real world political ambitions (which make some sense outside the cloud cuckoo land of IS).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Mar 17 3.27pm
Not to be mistaken for the act of Fart Right Terrorism I just committed in a crowded lift. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Mar 17 3.27pm

Not to be mistaken for the act of Fart Right Terrorism I just committed in a crowded lift.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Mar 17 3.35pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Not to be mistaken for the act of Fart Right Terrorism I just committed in a crowded lift. I thought you were a Gentleman Terrorist... [Link]
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 13 Mar 17 3.35pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Not to be mistaken for the act of Fart Right Terrorism I just committed in a crowded lift.

I thought you were a Gentleman Terrorist...

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Mar 17 3.41pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Not really, that's only really IS and Al-Qaeda. Its certainly not the objective of say Hamas or Hezbollah - which are tied to much more real world political ambitions (which make some sense outside the cloud cuckoo land of IS). Lol. Just IS an Al Qaeda. That's OK then.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Mar 17 3.41pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Lol.

Just IS an Al Qaeda.

That's OK then.

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topcat Holmesdale / Surbiton 13 Mar 17 3.59pm
I'd say that they are all far right extremists. The type of Islam that they believe in is a very right wing one. It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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topcat

Holmesdale / Surbiton 13 Mar 17 3.59pm

I'd say that they are all far right extremists. The type of Islam that they believe in is a very right wing one.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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Pista Bristol 13 Mar 17 4.04pm
I'm not sure I know exactly what terrorism is but for sure crossing the road seems a lot more dangerous. old time bbs refugee
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Pista

Bristol 13 Mar 17 4.04pm

I'm not sure I know exactly what terrorism is but for sure crossing the road seems a lot more dangerous.

old time bbs refugee

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Mar 17 4.06pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Lol. Just IS an Al Qaeda. That's OK then. I think there is a separate issue to extremist politics where the use of armed conflict is tied to a political agenda rather than a specifically vague religious one, that to some degree can be argued to have some degree of validity that is understandable outside of the religious (and for that matter achievable) - and that ties with the notion of armed resistance, or national liberation movements elsewhere in the world that have been supported and lauded by the UK. Which is to say, they are not entirely unreasonable organisations, not that I support them, but that their objectives and political goals are feasible and not unreasonable in their basis. Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Mar 2017 4.17pm) "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Mar 17 4.06pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Lol.

Just IS an Al Qaeda.

That's OK then.

I think there is a separate issue to extremist politics where the use of armed conflict is tied to a political agenda rather than a specifically vague religious one, that to some degree can be argued to have some degree of validity that is understandable outside of the religious (and for that matter achievable) - and that ties with the notion of armed resistance, or national liberation movements elsewhere in the world that have been supported and lauded by the UK.

Which is to say, they are not entirely unreasonable organisations, not that I support them, but that their objectives and political goals are feasible and not unreasonable in their basis.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Mar 2017 4.17pm)

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Mar 17 5.32pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Not really, that's only really IS and Al-Qaeda. Its certainly not the objective of say Hamas or Hezbollah - which are tied to much more real world political ambitions (which make some sense outside the cloud cuckoo land of IS). Glad you recognise Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist organisations. They both have links to Al-Qaeda - all three organisations met in Lebanon in 2002 to discuss joint terrorist attacks against Israel, USA and the UK. Both Hamas and Hezbollah call for the total destruction of Israel of course, and article 32 of the Hamas Covenant states "The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism." We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Mar 17 5.32pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Glad you recognise Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist organisations. They both have links to Al-Qaeda - all three organisations met in Lebanon in 2002 to discuss joint terrorist attacks against Israel, USA and the UK.
Both Hamas and Hezbollah call for the total destruction of Israel of course, and article 32 of the Hamas Covenant states "The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the circle of struggle against World Zionism."

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Mar 17 5.47pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I think there is a separate issue to extremist politics where the use of armed conflict is tied to a political agenda rather than a specifically vague religious one, that to some degree can be argued to have some degree of validity that is understandable outside of the religious (and for that matter achievable) - and that ties with the notion of armed resistance, or national liberation movements elsewhere in the world that have been supported and lauded by the UK. Which is to say, they are not entirely unreasonable organisations, not that I support them, but that their objectives and political goals are feasible and not unreasonable in their basis. Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Mar 2017 4.17pm) I know what you are getting at but surely all objectives are reasonable to those who have them.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Mar 17 5.47pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Which is to say, they are not entirely unreasonable organisations, not that I support them, but that their objectives and political goals are feasible and not unreasonable in their basis.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (13 Mar 2017 4.17pm)

I know what you are getting at but surely all objectives are reasonable to those who have them.

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