That he was able to do what he did in later life was only because of what he did in the 60s/70s. He wasn’t alone in thinking violence was justified , a significant minority of young working class man in Derry, Belfast, Fermanagh and Tyrone were making similar decisions.
Martin McGuinness was able to cajole and push those republican activist to use democratic means to achieve their goals because of the respect he had, John Hume and Bishop Daly could set a wider context for peace but could not have pushed the IRA into cease fire and giving up their guns. I know it’s a strange argument that it is only those that use violence that can bring peace, but Northern Ireland although still divided is not like it was in 50s and 60s Catholics are better represented as the recent elections shows. There is a growing catholic middle class with access to better jobs and schools.
Whether for pragmatic reasons or for a genuine change Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley were instrumental in that.

One supporter of hacking argued that without it "you will do away with the courage and pluck of the game, and I will be bound to bring over a lot of Frenchmen who would beat you with a week's practice -Blackheath secretary at first meeting of the F.A

I disagree. I don't think it does 'excuse it' at all. I am surprised you think like that, Matthew.

Big chest and massive boobs

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[quote Kermit:]
McGuinness was a murderer. No ifs or buts. But then again there were murderers on all sides; In the RUC, the Army, the loyalists and The Republicans with our own Government taking part in killings too. No one can claim the moral high ground.

That's not what he said Matt.
Luckily it wasn't you 2 at the Peace Talks or they'd still be going on now.

This is so tiresome.
I give it until 13:00 before you say "I bet some of your best friends are Protestant Mickey"
and then Kermit argues back and the rest of HOL leave what was a quite interesting thread.

Bonkers.

You fed me, you bred me, I'll remember your name.

One thing I do known, having been there, most of Belfast isn't worth dying for.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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One person worth listening to in all the debate is perhaps Colin parry whose son Tim was killed by the ira bomb in warrington. Food for thought and I think he sums it up quite well. Will try and find a link. He has been on sseveral news programmes already

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Edited by Michaelawt85 (21 Mar 2017 1.16pm)

When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

NI is an artificial construct, created when the Irish Free State came into being. It happened because there was a large amount of British (or, more specifically, Scottish) settlers there, notwithstanding a catholic majority in the country as a whole. The British had a habit of partitioning (or sowing the seeds of future discord) with newly independent countries (see Palestine, India, Cyprus).

Ireland is historically one country, no matter what artificial divisions have been imposed on it.

Edited by Cucking Funt (21 Mar 2017 2.24pm)