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March 19 2024 7.04am

Carillion go into liquidation

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 15 Jan 18 8.15am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

This is big news, Carillion are a huge construction company and facilities management operation:

[Link]

The government will get involved as Carillion touch rail, PFI and outsourced services. Thousands of jobs are affected as are pensions.

Looks like they overreached themselves by taking on risky contracts.

 


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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 15 Jan 18 8.51am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

The knock on effect will be terrible as there are thousands of subcontractors big and small that rely on Carillion and many will go bust themselves as a result

 

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jeeagles Flag 15 Jan 18 9.12am

Much of this is still a concequence of the 2007 crash. In order to survive in the 5 years after it they took on many long term contracts at highly competitive rates. These were risky but necessary to keep them afloat at the time.

There's still a staff shortage in the construction industry which has
got worse recently. As the market had picked up wages have risen even more than expected. Partially to do with the reduction in net migration. As a result these companies are making a loss trying to fulfill many of their long term contracts.

Many government organisations have realised they are now getting a great deal from their longer term contracts so have extended them as much as they possibly can.

None of this seems to be being reported as it doesn't go along with the Union's argument about private sector companies making big profits of the government. Particularly from PFI's. Clearly Carillon haven't made these big profits and the banks they took loans of for the PFI's are now closing in.

There a few other factors at play. Such as clients in the middle East refusing to pay or delaying payment because they are oily gits.

There are still many other big players and rapidly expanding companies who'd be looking at taking on their contracts. It will probably cause some delays and price increases but should be too much of a long term issue.

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 15 Jan 18 9.41am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Hmmm..... made £146.7 million profit before taxation in 2016, increased the divided by 1% to 18.45 pps and totally ignored the enormous black hole that comprises their pension fund yet again......(and this is similar to year after year of operations)


then they expect the taxpayer to bail them out (for 'the government' has no funds - only revenue remember). Let the shareholders repay/stump up first before they go begging off anyone else.

[Link]

 


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.TUX. Flag 15 Jan 18 9.54am

Originally posted by becky

Hmmm..... made £146.7 million profit before taxation in 2016, increased the divided by 1% to 18.45 pps and totally ignored the enormous black hole that comprises their pension fund yet again......(and this is similar to year after year of operations)


then they expect the taxpayer to bail them out (for 'the government' has no funds - only revenue remember). Let the shareholders repay/stump up first before they go begging off anyone else.

[Link]

Agreed.
Many (somehow?) forget that every investment carries risk.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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jeeagles Flag 15 Jan 18 11.47am

Shareholders normally don't worry that much about dividends if the share price is rising.

A lot of the time larger dividends are paid out in an attempt to artificially boost share prices.

Out of £5.2bn revenue their profit was 3% which is pretty poor considering the risk they carry, even then it was 1% more than the previous year.

 

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View Barcelona Based Fan's Profile Barcelona Based Fan Flag No longer Barcelona, now living in... 15 Jan 18 12.00pm Send a Private Message to Barcelona Based Fan Add Barcelona Based Fan as a friend

Weren't they supposed to be the chosen company to build our new main stand?

 


TaxiMark
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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:49 PM
I don't mind palace to be fair. Much better club than tinpot Charlton and Brighton

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 15 Jan 18 12.33pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Barcelona Based Fan

Weren't they supposed to be the chosen company to build our new main stand?

Surely it's Aron Noades' building company?

 


COYP

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 15 Jan 18 12.36pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by becky

Hmmm..... made £146.7 million profit before taxation in 2016, increased the divided by 1% to 18.45 pps and totally ignored the enormous black hole that comprises their pension fund yet again......(and this is similar to year after year of operations)


then they expect the taxpayer to bail them out (for 'the government' has no funds - only revenue remember). Let the shareholders repay/stump up first before they go begging off anyone else.

[Link]


Quite. Their dividend policy was a disgrace and showed flagrant contempt for their staff and other stakeholders.

Chris Grayling is being made to look more of an imbecile week by week. First the East Coast mainline debacle and now this. The man should lose his job over this one. He's cost us taxpayers a lot of money with his negligence.

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 15 Jan 18 12.39pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by jeeagles

Shareholders normally don't worry that much about dividends if the share price is rising.

A lot of the time larger dividends are paid out in an attempt to artificially boost share prices.

Out of £5.2bn revenue their profit was 3% which is pretty poor considering the risk they carry, even then it was 1% more than the previous year.

Cash is king. 3% net net profit not that bad depending on industry and the proportion of fixed and variable costs. Some businesses are high volume low margin. In this case though the writing was on the wall. The government have really not done their homework on this one (again) and I hope there is an inquiry into the numerous state contracts awarded to Carillion in recent years.

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 15 Jan 18 1.57pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

This is why the monopolies and mergers (now competition) commission should stop letting large companies consume so many of their competitors.

It sounds even worse when you realise that Carillion going into liquidation, could read as "Tarmac, Wimpey, Alfred McAlpine, Mowlem, John Laing etc have gone into liquidation."

I feel sorry for the subcontractors, they'll lose the most.

 


Optimistic as ever

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 15 Jan 18 5.07pm

Originally posted by becky

Hmmm..... made £146.7 million profit before taxation in 2016, increased the divided by 1% to 18.45 pps and totally ignored the enormous black hole that comprises their pension fund yet again......(and this is similar to year after year of operations)


then they expect the taxpayer to bail them out (for 'the government' has no funds - only revenue remember). Let the shareholders repay/stump up first before they go begging off anyone else.

[Link]

100% correct. It shows the issues of relying solely on S&P ratings and similar when valuing companies.

Discussions have been ongoing for years on this subject an normally kicked into touch by a mixture of the Tory Government and big business.

Some of these executives must be criminally negligeable, but they always be found to be unfit, naive, mentally challenged after the fact.

 


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