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March 19 2024 5.32am

Carillion go into liquidation

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 23 Jan 18 8.54am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Less than half of their revenue came from UK government, albeit UK government was their largest customer with close to half.

The main problems were poor management of liquidity and their pension deficit. The company was profitable and increasing dividends year on year and paying large bonuses to execs. It was mismanagement and overreaching. They were still booking profits. It is arguable that the accounting wasn't fit for purpose, but their is little evidence that contracts from the UK government weren't profitable for Carillion.

The deals with Carillion were still bad for the taxpayer and should never have been made in the first place.

[Link]

A Polly Toynbee opinion piece wouldn’t be biased, would it? It’s hardly the objective view to base an argument around.

There is plenty of evidence on the ‘net that the government pushed outsourcers to the limits.

Political agendas prevent clear view on this.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 18 5.19pm

Seems that the directors paid top money and bonus payments to while neglecting to top up the pension pot, i think the shareholders did ok to, the con government should look to take back the money if they have any balls, make the directors sell there houses if need be, better that than a trip at her majestys pleasure as someone should be held accountable,,,and not the taxpayer!

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 5.26pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Seems that the directors paid top money and bonus payments to while neglecting to top up the pension pot, i think the shareholders did ok to, the con government should look to take back the money if they have any balls, make the directors sell there houses if need be, better that than a trip at her majestys pleasure as someone should be held accountable,,,and not the taxpayer!

You don't seem to understand what a limited company is.

The shareholders who lost all of their investment did okay did they?

And it won't be the taxpayer, it'll be the PPF whose finances are raised via a levy on pension funds and via investments of that.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 29 Jan 18 5.38pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

A Polly Toynbee opinion piece wouldn’t be biased, would it? It’s hardly the objective view to base an argument around.

There is plenty of evidence on the ‘net that the government pushed outsourcers to the limits.

Political agendas prevent clear view on this.


It directly quotes people from local authorities. Tory councillors. It's not a simple opinion piece.

There are 2 options, either the government is callous and forces outsourcers into unprofitable deals and so threatens jobs and investors in those companies, or they provide profitable deals which are bad for the taxpayer as that's money being taken from the public purse and used to pay profits to private interests. The efficiency gain (if any) has not been shown to be value for money in either case.

 

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 6.11pm

Originally posted by Stuk

You don't seem to understand what a limited company is.

The shareholders who lost all of their investment did okay did they?

And it won't be the taxpayer, it'll be the PPF whose finances are raised via a levy on pension funds and via investments of that.

Although i agree with your post there is the point that historic dividends were paid while a known large deficit existed in the pension fund.

It's a problem with how ratings companies value companies.

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 18 7.32pm

Originally posted by pefwin

Although i agree with your post there is the point that historic dividends were paid while a known large deficit existed in the pension fund.

It's a problem with how ratings companies value companies.

Exactly, the shareholders and directors were paid out over the years while they were neglecting the pension pot,,,but who knew? or cared?

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 7.47pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin

Although i agree with your post there is the point that historic dividends were paid while a known large deficit existed in the pension fund.

It's a problem with how ratings companies value companies.

It was the emotive "make the directors sell their houses" nonsense that made me reply.

Change the law to ringfence the pensions. Or ban defined benefit schemes altogether.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 7.48pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Exactly, the shareholders and directors were paid out over the years while they were neglecting the pension pot,,,but who knew? or cared?

The auditors, the pension trustees and the pension regulator all knew. Who else do you think should've been informed?

 


Optimistic as ever

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 7.49pm

Originally posted by Stuk

It was the emotive "make the directors sell their houses" nonsense that made me reply.

Change the law to ringfence the pensions. Or ban defined benefit schemes altogether.

DB schemes are for ex teachers only, I'm afraid. [almost].

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 29 Jan 18 7.56pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by pefwin

DB schemes are for ex teachers only, I'm afraid. [almost].

They and final salary schemes should be long gone. I'm leaning towards banning all company pension schemes of any type.

 


Optimistic as ever

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 29 Jan 18 8.00pm

Originally posted by Stuk

It was the emotive "make the directors sell their houses" nonsense that made me reply.

Change the law to ringfence the pensions. Or ban defined benefit schemes altogether.

if its proven that a criminal act took place then the culprits should have to pay back the booty, just like a major drug dealer, and if that includes the property funded by the fraud, so be it, i imagine blue collar crime is ok in the con govt thou, just look at the uber scandal with dave, boris and georgie boy!

 

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 29 Jan 18 8.07pm

Originally posted by Stuk

They and final salary schemes should be long gone. I'm leaning towards banning all company pension schemes of any type.

I disagree companies should be allowed to profile remuneration how they like but they MUST make good on their contractual promises.

The next issue would be taxation.

Edited by pefwin (29 Jan 2018 8.10pm)

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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