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April 27 2024 8.46am

Politicians against free speech

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 24 8.28am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

Good luck getting a sensible debate

Suggesting that hating Marmite is relevant to this is sensible?

Says it all. To anyone sensible, of course.

 


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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 14 Feb 24 8.42am Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No one because it isn’t.

I know that the law is not meant to include such events but the interpretation is what is up for debate. For example who would be offended by such a statement about Marmite and could therefore take offence? The manufacturer if sales started to fall. Similarly, who would have guessed that Santander would be offended by the current Nationwide TV adverts to the extent that they have asked the authorities to investigate? Santander are not mentioned in the ads and yet they obviously feel offended by them. It’s all about the interpretation and with that comes the minefield of unintended offence that will invariably side with the ‘victim’.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 24 9.29am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

I know that the law is not meant to include such events but the interpretation is what is up for debate. For example who would be offended by such a statement about Marmite and could therefore take offence? The manufacturer if sales started to fall. Similarly, who would have guessed that Santander would be offended by the current Nationwide TV adverts to the extent that they have asked the authorities to investigate? Santander are not mentioned in the ads and yet they obviously feel offended by them. It’s all about the interpretation and with that comes the minefield of unintended offence that will invariably side with the ‘victim’.

The interpretation is not up for debate at all. It’s defined and whatever gripe Santander has with competitors advertising isn’t covered by it. If they have a legitimate case it will be under something else. Same with food products. The law only relates to people. The CPS approach may help:-

[Link]

 


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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 14 Feb 24 9.47am Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The interpretation is not up for debate at all. It’s defined and whatever gripe Santander has with competitors advertising isn’t covered by it. If they have a legitimate case it will be under something else. Same with food products. The law only relates to people. The CPS approach may help:-

[Link]

The interpretation is not up for debate: “There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.”

The wording of the CPS above is what I find worrying; resentment and dislike. I accept prejudice and to a lesser extent unfriendliness and antagonism but if I don’t like somebody because I think they are incompetent or a bully but they happen to be gay, transgender, a Muslim or whatever, I can find myself being questioned if the other person wants to use their classification as a weapon against me. As I say, the victim invariably wins due to the legal process. Not good. I am surprised that you would be happy with this.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 14 Feb 24 3.45pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Do you not accept that there is a big difference between the right to freely express yourself, within the parameters determined by the society you live in, and a right to say whatever you wish?

the new laws coming in in ireland could crucify you for speaking the truth.
They also will allow you to rip apart some people ( straight Gammons) , but other 'protected' people will be unassailable - even if you speak the truth about them. 'thought crime' in all but name.
If you pass a comment on the prisons being filled with 'certain types' you could get crucified for it.

Pertinent in Ireland, if some snowflake feels hurt by your words, you get it in the neck.

also, to even possess certain books may be deemed an offence. Last time a government attacked books ? that was Hitler or ISIS, if i recall correctly.

to kill free speech is to create Tyranny.

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (14 Feb 2024 3.50pm)

 


Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 24 7.24pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

The interpretation is not up for debate: “There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.”

The wording of the CPS above is what I find worrying; resentment and dislike. I accept prejudice and to a lesser extent unfriendliness and antagonism but if I don’t like somebody because I think they are incompetent or a bully but they happen to be gay, transgender, a Muslim or whatever, I can find myself being questioned if the other person wants to use their classification as a weapon against me. As I say, the victim invariably wins due to the legal process. Not good. I am surprised that you would be happy with this.

Criticism of anyone for being a bully is not a hate crime. It’s only if you refer to them in a discriminatory way because of their membership of the defined categories that is.

Not being comfortable with the CPS wording is fine. Criticise it as much as you like and campaign for change. If anyone weaponised the law and used it unfairly against you, or anyone else, then you would have every right to defend yourself and call it out, with support from me. I don’t think the CPS are stupid and only proceed when there is extremely clear evidence of a crime. I therefore think your concerns are imaginary rather than real.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Feb 24 7.31pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the new laws coming in in ireland could crucify you for speaking the truth.
They also will allow you to rip apart some people ( straight Gammons) , but other 'protected' people will be unassailable - even if you speak the truth about them. 'thought crime' in all but name.
If you pass a comment on the prisons being filled with 'certain types' you could get crucified for it.

Pertinent in Ireland, if some snowflake feels hurt by your words, you get it in the neck.

also, to even possess certain books may be deemed an offence. Last time a government attacked books ? that was Hitler or ISIS, if i recall correctly.

to kill free speech is to create Tyranny.

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (14 Feb 2024 3.50pm)

I am unaware of the actual proposed law in Ireland. Perhaps you can send a link to the actual text.

However I cannot believe that the claims made in that video could possibly be true. No one could be prosecuted just because someone else found something offensive. We could charge every Brighton supporter with a crime if that were true.

It has to be much narrower and defined than that.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View eaglesdare's Profile eaglesdare Flag 14 Feb 24 7.36pm Send a Private Message to eaglesdare Add eaglesdare as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am unaware of the actual proposed law in Ireland. Perhaps you can send a link to the actual text.

However I cannot believe that the claims made in that video could possibly be true. No one could be prosecuted just because someone else found something offensive. We could charge every Brighton supporter with a crime if that were true.

It has to be much narrower and defined than that.

It has to be but it isn't. The ridiculousness of it all is astounding. Even for Irish politicians. Then again they do as directed by the EU.
It is not defined anything someone says that another person does not like can be hate speech.

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 14 Feb 24 8.21pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Criticism of anyone for being a bully is not a hate crime. It’s only if you refer to them in a discriminatory way because of their membership of the defined categories that is.

Not being comfortable with the CPS wording is fine. Criticise it as much as you like and campaign for change. If anyone weaponised the law and used it unfairly against you, or anyone else, then you would have every right to defend yourself and call it out, with support from me. I don’t think the CPS are stupid and only proceed when there is extremely clear evidence of a crime. I therefore think your concerns are imaginary rather than real.

We will see…

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 14 Feb 24 8.21pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


Different rules apply.

[Link]

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 14 Feb 24 9.29pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Different rules apply.

[Link]

“What next – a telescreen in every home to keep an eye and ear out for iffy jokes and unwoke utterances?”
I find it somewhat worrying that my wife and daughter are forever getting targeted adverts on their iPhones relating to things they’ve talked about during the day, so the snooping technology already appears to exist. I’ve turned off Siri on my phone to spare the intrusion. It is a very worrying development if I am correct in my assumption.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Online Flag 14 Feb 24 9.50pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

“What next – a telescreen in every home to keep an eye and ear out for iffy jokes and unwoke utterances?”
I find it somewhat worrying that my wife and daughter are forever getting targeted adverts on their iPhones relating to things they’ve talked about during the day, so the snooping technology already appears to exist. I’ve turned off Siri on my phone to spare the intrusion. It is a very worrying development if I am correct in my assumption.

My wife was getting a bit paranoid about her phone listening to her. Saves me the job.

 

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