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Miners vs farmers

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Online Flag 11 Jul 18 3.46pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Back in the 70's 80's we essentially got rid of miners and were told by them it would kill communities. 40 years on we survived.

With brexit we are told the same for farmers.
If they only exist because of subsidies what is the actual point?

Has brexit just highlighted there is no money in farming?


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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 11 Jul 18 3.57pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Reliance on coal had been declining since the 1960s so pit closures were inevitable one way or the other. As an aside, if you want to find out what happens to an area when an industry upon which it depends disappears try visiting, for example, the Rhondda.

But do you seriously think we should be entirely reliant on our food supply from imports, I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Is this perhaps something that you haven't quite thought through?

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Online Flag 11 Jul 18 4.41pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by bexleydave

Reliance on coal had been declining since the 1960s so pit closures were inevitable one way or the other. As an aside, if you want to find out what happens to an area when an industry upon which it depends disappears try visiting, for example, the Rhondda.

But do you seriously think we should be entirely reliant on our food supply from imports, I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Is this perhaps something that you haven't quite thought through?

couldn't you say the same about a reliance on Russian gas from most of the EU?

Isn't the problem that we can import food from low wage economies with free trade?

Take our selves away from the free trade means we need and must be more self sufficient which means our farmers are earning their money and have a purpose.

Has the EU dragged us down rather than up?
Fishing has been desimated?

 

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View bexleydave's Profile bexleydave Flag Barnehurst 11 Jul 18 5.52pm Send a Private Message to bexleydave Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add bexleydave as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

couldn't you say the same about a reliance on Russian gas from most of the EU?

Isn't the problem that we can import food from low wage economies with free trade?

Take our selves away from the free trade means we need and must be more self sufficient which means our farmers are earning their money and have a purpose.

Has the EU dragged us down rather than up?
Fishing has been desimated?

I'm sorry, but I've lost the point of what you're trying to say. Relying on food imports, however cheap they may be, would be a foolish strategy. I voted to leave the EU for a number of reasons, one of which was because of the Fisheries Policy. You're using that as an argument, yet seem to want to "decimate" UK farming. If we want to be "self-sufficient" with respect to agriculture, as you put it, then everyone man jack of us is going to have to pay a whole lot more than we do now for produce. To suggest that UK farming doesn't have "a purpose" is, in my opinion, deeply ignorant.

Edited by bexleydave (11 Jul 2018 5.53pm)

 


Bexley Dave

Can you hear the Brighton sing? I can't hear a ******* thing!

"The most arrogant, obnoxious bunch of deluded little sun tanned, loafer wearing mummy's boys I've ever had the misfortune of having to listen to" (Burnley forum)

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 11 Jul 18 6.05pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Most of the subsidies that farmers receive are for 'set-aside' measures. Basically they are paid by the EU to leave the fields bare of crops (except for silage for their own use)to keep down the stockpiled mountains of stuff that the EU purchases to maintain pre-set prices as per the Common Agricultural Policy.

There has been a lot of investment in alternatives to 'growing things' on farms; agro-tourism and agro-industry for starters, but the fields are still there and can be converted back for food at anytime.

As for selling their lamb and beef in the EU - Europe cannot produce enough of their own to meet demand and, as it will also prove with fish, they will either have to buy from us or import frozen from greater distance suppliers and at additional cost. We export most of our lamb there simply because under the current supply/demand they will take everything they can get from us - it will just cost them a bit more now.

 


Never be too ambitious - it'll save a lot of disappointment

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 11 Jul 18 6.50pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

If we suffered loss of our imported foods during a conflict we could very quickly re-direct the very significant farm land we have towards purely internal use.

 

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View Direwolf's Profile Direwolf Flag Lincoln 11 Jul 18 7.03pm Send a Private Message to Direwolf Add Direwolf as a friend

I'm quite disappointed that this thread is not a debate about who would win a fight between miners and farmers.

 


Vote for a Muppet - you know you'll get one anyway.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View .TUX.'s Profile .TUX. Flag 11 Jul 18 9.12pm Send a Private Message to .TUX. Add .TUX. as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Back in the 70's 80's we essentially got rid of miners and were told by them it would kill communities. 40 years on we survived.

With brexit we are told the same for farmers.
If they only exist because of subsidies what is the actual point?

Has brexit just highlighted there is no money in farming?


[Link]


It did kill communities.
You then mention ''we survived''.

Make your mind up.

 


Buy Litecoin.

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 11 Jul 18 9.59pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

The closure of the coal mines DID kill whole communities. The mining towns of the north, of Wales and even parts of Kent were decimated by those closures.

Even now they are mostly run down areas of high unemployment, social deprevation and poverty.

If by 'we,' you mean London, the South East or areas where there were not mines of course they survived. Take a wander round other parts of the country and many will disagree with you.

Edited by orpingtoneagle (11 Jul 2018 9.59pm)

Edited by orpingtoneagle (11 Jul 2018 10.00pm)

 

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 11 Jul 18 10.17pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

I live in The Rhondda and it most definitely destroyed the area. It still hasn't recovered.

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Jul 18 11.09pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Farms arenít just production lines. You could make the land more productive by moving to huge agribusinesses. The effect historically has been soil degrading, less attractive countryside, blocking of accesses to the countryside as an amenity and growth of cash crops to the detriment of more balanced farming.

Part of the reason for the CAP for all its flaws was to protect communities from faceless and detrimental capitalism

But hey, if you donít like hedgerows and small farms you campaign for removal of subsidies.

You only have to look at the Scottish Highlands to observe the expulsion of communities in favour of huge offshore leisure businesses to see the effects. Desertion of areas previously thriving with mad bekilted Jocks. But lovely shooting for the Yanks and mega income for the 500 people that own half of Scotland. Yes, really.

 

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View the.universal's Profile the.universal 11 Jul 18 11.17pm Send a Private Message to the.universal Add the.universal as a friend

Originally posted by becky

Most of the subsidies that farmers receive are for 'set-aside' measures. Basically they are paid by the EU to leave the fields bare of crops (except for silage for their own use)to keep down the stockpiled mountains of stuff that the EU purchases to maintain pre-set prices as per the Common Agricultural Policy.

There has been a lot of investment in alternatives to 'growing things' on farms; agro-tourism and agro-industry for starters, but the fields are still there and can be converted back for food at anytime.

As for selling their lamb and beef in the EU - Europe cannot produce enough of their own to meet demand and, as it will also prove with fish, they will either have to buy from us or import frozen from greater distance suppliers and at additional cost. We export most of our lamb there simply because under the current supply/demand they will take everything they can get from us - it will just cost them a bit more now.

The EC agreed in November 2008 to abolish set-aside completely through the CAP Health Check.

Edited by the.universal (11 Jul 2018 11.17pm)

 


Vive le Roy!

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