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July 19 2019 7.11am

Safe standing for 2019/2020

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 01 May 19 5.03pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by Pierre

Yes the rail seating at Spurs is excellent. It does not increase capacity as you need the same space as a seat. However, unlike sections of the old terracing it does give you the protection of a barrier.
Lets hope the powers that be get on with bringing the required legislation.

In the old days, sometimes standing next to a barrier didn't give one much protection due to the surges of supporters tumbling down the terrace.A damn thwack in the back and being rammed against a barrier and pinned to it made for a very painful and uncomfortable experience.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 02 May 19 8.38am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

A survey of MPs has suggested that 62% are in favour of standing but only 47% of the general population responded favourably.

There have been fears raised that standing could hinder attempts to identify supporters guility of anti-social behaviour and racial abuse.The Police have stated that despite CCTV it is a challenge to identify supporters when they are standing up presumably as they don't have an allocated seat.The UK Football Policing Unit have repeatedly raised their concerns with the PL regarding the identification of perpertrators of anti-social behaviour in standing areas should they ever be permitted.
There are also fears that standing will result in a testosterone-fuelled "Lad culture" that used to be prevalent on the terraces.

 

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 02 May 19 10.20am Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

A survey of MPs has suggested that 62% are in favour of standing but only 47% of the general population responded favourably.

There have been fears raised that standing could hinder attempts to identify supporters guility of anti-social behaviour and racial abuse.The Police have stated that despite CCTV it is a challenge to identify supporters when they are standing up presumably as they don't have an allocated seat.The UK Football Policing Unit have repeatedly raised their concerns with the PL regarding the identification of perpertrators of anti-social behaviour in standing areas should they ever be permitted.
There are also fears that standing will result in a testosterone-fuelled "Lad culture" that used to be prevalent on the terraces.

If we allow that to be a reason then we are sleep walking into a police state.

 


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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 02 May 19 10.36am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by topcat

If we allow that to be a reason then we are sleep walking into a police state.

The Lead Officer for policing football matches has serious concerns that a return to standing will only fuel what is currently happening in relation to disorder,the hurling of missiles and racist abuse. At Celtic a pitch invasion came from the standing section and inappropriate chanting and displays of inappropriate banners are more prevalent in this area.

Edited by Willo (02 May 2019 10.36am)

 

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View topcat's Profile topcat Flag Holmesdale / Surbiton 02 May 19 10.52am Send a Private Message to topcat Add topcat as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

The Lead Officer for policing football matches has serious concerns that a return to standing will only fuel what is currently happening in relation to disorder,the hurling of missiles and racist abuse. At Celtic a pitch invasion came from the standing section and inappropriate chanting and displays of inappropriate banners are more prevalent in this area.

Edited by Willo (02 May 2019 10.36am)

Don't get me wrong, I can see why the police would want everyone sat down in allocated seats as it makes their job so much easier. It just doesn't make it right and isn't a good enough reason to stop safe standing.

1000s of people watch lower league football every week, sitting or standing, mostly without a designated seat or place to stand, and mostly without any trouble whatsoever.

 


It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.

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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 02 May 19 11.08am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by topcat

Don't get me wrong, I can see why the police would want everyone sat down in allocated seats as it makes their job so much easier. It just doesn't make it right and isn't a good enough reason to stop safe standing.

1000s of people watch lower league football every week, sitting or standing, mostly without a designated seat or place to stand, and mostly without any trouble whatsoever.

Indeed and this is the point - there is no history of trouble in lower league football where many clubs do not even get 100 through the gate whereas there is a history of problems at league level.

One doesn't get players attacked by supporters,missiles hurled,crowd disturbances and in general racist abuse at non-league level and the Police are concerned about a fuelling of such behaviour at league level where such behaviour has occurred on numerous occasions.

In the final analysis, the PL do not have a unified position on safe standing and if the law is changed, each individual club will make it's own decision.

 

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View PZ Eagle's Profile PZ Eagle Flag Penzance 02 May 19 11.15am Send a Private Message to PZ Eagle Add PZ Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by topcat

Don't get me wrong, I can see why the police would want everyone sat down in allocated seats as it makes their job so much easier. It just doesn't make it right and isn't a good enough reason to stop safe standing.

1000s of people watch lower league football every week, sitting or standing, mostly without a designated seat or place to stand, and mostly without any trouble whatsoever.

Dont forget there used to be a terrace the length of the pitch in front of the Main Stand and the Arthur which meant no-one stood in the seated sections. I'm all for safe standing as long as there is no standing allowed in the seated sections of the ground. I can't stand for nearly two hours to watch football now so I won't even come to Selhurst Park unless I am sure to get a seat where I can watch the game without people standing in front of me. Not too much to ask after paying out £50 or more for a seat is it?

 


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View Willo's Profile Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 02 May 19 11.34am Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by PZ Eagle

Dont forget there used to be a terrace the length of the pitch in front of the Main Stand and the Arthur which meant no-one stood in the seated sections. I'm all for safe standing as long as there is no standing allowed in the seated sections of the ground. I can't stand for nearly two hours to watch football now so I won't even come to Selhurst Park unless I am sure to get a seat where I can watch the game without people standing in front of me. Not too much to ask after paying out £50 or more for a seat is it?

This has been the thrust of my ire for many a moon - supporters who need or wish to SIT have their view obscured by those who continue to stand, giving no consideration whatsoever to their fellow fans.I have made my view on this patently clear and lively debate followed.

In terms of the "No standing allowed in the seated sections", I wouldn't be too optimistic.The club turns a blind eye (Or should I assert takes a relaxed standpoint !) towards those who currently stand in seated areas so I suspect the same will continue.

Edited by Willo (02 May 2019 11.36am)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 May 19 11.38am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by PZ Eagle

Dont forget there used to be a terrace the length of the pitch in front of the Main Stand and the Arthur which meant no-one stood in the seated sections. I'm all for safe standing as long as there is no standing allowed in the seated sections of the ground. I can't stand for nearly two hours to watch football now so I won't even come to Selhurst Park unless I am sure to get a seat where I can watch the game without people standing in front of me. Not too much to ask after paying out £50 or more for a seat is it?


People standing for corners and goalmouth stuff has always been annoying in any part of the ground. It's stupid that people stand up but they still do, it's like a reflex.
For rail seating, I can only see it working if that area goes from top to bottom of the terracing without seats behind it. Otherwise, the whole area will have to be lowered or one or two whole rows of seating will have to be removed to avoid viewing restriction. That would result in a slight reduction in capacity.

I am not in favour of safe standing myself but if it goes ahead then the middle section of the lower Holmesdale would be the obvious choice.

 

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View Pierre's Profile Pierre Flag Purley 02 May 19 12.50pm Send a Private Message to Pierre Add Pierre as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

In the old days, sometimes standing next to a barrier didn't give one much protection due to the surges of supporters tumbling down the terrace.A damn thwack in the back and being rammed against a barrier and pinned to it made for a very painful and uncomfortable experience.

The barriers in rail seating are in every row so cannot be compared in any way to the old terracing with its occaisional barrier system which did lead to deliberate dangerous crowd surges. Everyone has a dedicated space corresponding to their ticket.


 

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View Nobbybm's Profile Nobbybm Flag Dartford 03 May 19 8.04am Send a Private Message to Nobbybm Add Nobbybm as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

In the old days, sometimes standing next to a barrier didn't give one much protection due to the surges of supporters tumbling down the terrace.A damn thwack in the back and being rammed against a barrier and pinned to it made for a very painful and uncomfortable experience.

Which is why folk who didn’t want to be involved stood in front of them

A majority were ‘rails’ & not really ‘barriers’ & could easily be ducked under & none were particularly long - it was only at the front where you had little choice.

As regards increased “anti-social” behaviour at matches, this is on the increase irrespective of standing sections. I’ll try & find the piece I read recently which showed a correlation between online behaviour & what then followed in the real world.

 


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View Phil H's Profile Phil H Flag 03 May 19 11.35am Send a Private Message to Phil H Add Phil H as a friend

There's a poster on these forums called Sitdownstandup. I'd like to hear his opinion on the matter!

 

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