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April 5 2020 9.51am

The moaning about Parish/Hodgson/Freedman thread

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View est1905's Profile est1905 Flag 16 Jan 20 5.57pm Send a Private Message to est1905 Add est1905 as a friend

Originally posted by Therealeaglestilidie

"The youngsters will break through if they are good enough as we saw with AWB"

Worryingly we were apparently about to ship AWB out on loan just before Ward got injured, so we couldn't see talent when it was right under our noses.

Very true however the misconception that we somewhere somehow have another AWB or Wilf Zaha lurking about in our youth set up needs to be put to bed. There is no one currently knocking on the door of the first team. As quite rightly pointed out, real competitive games for our youngsters are hard to come by but whenever they have been used in a cup game (or even a prestigious preseason friendly) to try and see what they're made of they have done average at best. Its sad to say it but I'd bet the vast majority of our current youth will end up feeding the next tier down and be solid Championship standard players. Not so bad if we make money out of it but when was the last time a Championship club paid decent money to a Prem club for one of their former academy players? Jonny Williams is an example. In the end he probably ended up costing Palace money rather than making us any. Of course these lads are human beings not meat to be traded but a youth system only works if every couple of years you can make some money from it.

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 16 Jan 20 6.31pm Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

I acknowledge that Hodgson is doing a reasonable job and that he has not been properly supported with regard to resources.
I also acknowledge that plenty on here will tell me to Ďbe careful what I wish forí and point to Curbishley as an example of what can happen to a club when a respected manager leaves a club.
However, there is a part of me that looks forward to the day when he is not manager.
Iím fed up of seeing 10 men behind the ball regardless of the opposition, the use of three defensive midfield players each game, the negating of the strengths of Townsend and Zaha who play in very restricted manner often marooned around the half way line nowhere near the goal.
I despair of our lack of goals and inability to score in the first half (I think only one at home all season).
People point at Royís coaching strength but for me that is limited to the defensive side, and letís face it, itís much easier to set up a team to defend than to attack.
We pack our half with players, compress the space and leave few gaps for the opposition to exploit.
I am a long term supporter and have seen at play at Division 1 equivalent and know that historically we are doing really well.
This doesnít mean we should not aspire to a better.
We have a capable defence, solid midfield and a good goalkeeper which is a more than adequate foundation to enable us to play in a more adventurous fashion.

 

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View scuffy's Profile scuffy Flag orpington 16 Jan 20 6.43pm Send a Private Message to scuffy Add scuffy as a friend

The reality is that we don't have the matchday revenues that bigger rivals have. We will always have a ceiling on what we can achieve. The last few years have been a phenomenal time for the club and I can't help thinking people should enjoy it more!

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

I think we need to divide this up as I simply don't see the two in the same light.

Roy has years of experience. He cuts his cloth to fit and has ow created a team that is dull but hard to beat. He also has them playing to the final whistle.

Parish is just a clever version of SJ both saved the club but both have run out of money. SJ tried to play fast and loose with HMRC but Parish has just enough cash and nouse to keep going.

But in doing so he just papers over the cracks. We just take on a few more loans sign a few old war horses on a free and flog off a bit of the family silver when we need to.

I suspect yet again we will see no permanent signings and the new stand will never be built.

But lots on here will tell me I am wrong and yet again marvel at the Emporers new clothes

 

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 16 Jan 20 7.58pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

I acknowledge that Hodgson is doing a reasonable job and that he has not been properly supported with regard to resources.
I also acknowledge that plenty on here will tell me to Ďbe careful what I wish forí and point to Curbishley as an example of what can happen to a club when a respected manager leaves a club.
However, there is a part of me that looks forward to the day when he is not manager.
Iím fed up of seeing 10 men behind the ball regardless of the opposition, the use of three defensive midfield players each game, the negating of the strengths of Townsend and Zaha who play in very restricted manner often marooned around the half way line nowhere near the goal.
I despair of our lack of goals and inability to score in the first half (I think only one at home all season).
People point at Royís coaching strength but for me that is limited to the defensive side, and letís face it, itís much easier to set up a team to defend than to attack.
We pack our half with players, compress the space and leave few gaps for the opposition to exploit.
I am a long term supporter and have seen at play at Division 1 equivalent and know that historically we are doing really well.
This doesnít mean we should not aspire to a better.
We have a capable defence, solid midfield and a good goalkeeper which is a more than adequate foundation to enable us to play in a more adventurous fashion.

The key aspect about Roy is, he knows what the strengths and capability of his players and sets up his teams accordingly. There are many ways to win a football match, not conceding is a good start.
The big problem with his system is, we don't get our wingers to put crosses into the box, both Zaha and Townsend like to cut inside. We have Benteke whos main strength is his heading ability, but he gets no service and is pillorised as a bad player now, the system isn't helping him. We have just got Tosun on loan from Everton, guess what, all his goals at Everton were headers, so don't expect he will be much better than Benteke with no service.

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 16 Jan 20 8.17pm Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

Iím not sure he does the strengths of all of his players.
He knows the system he wants to play and shoehorns them into that system regardless.
He has used Meyer in 3 consecutive games in a wide right position that he is patently unsuited to.
He has used Mcarthur on the right and left of a midfield four where he will do a job, but he is far more effective in a central role.
I agree about the system not being good for strikers which is partly why Benteke struggles, and we may see the same with Tosun (hopefully not).
Iím not that big a fan of Allardyce but al least he played to the strengths of Zaha, Benteke and Townsend and they looked a far more potent threat as a result.

 

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 16 Jan 20 8.19pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

The key aspect about Roy is, he knows what the strengths and capability of his players and sets up his teams accordingly. There are many ways to win a football match, not conceding is a good start.
The big problem with his system is, we don't get our wingers to put crosses into the box, both Zaha and Townsend like to cut inside. We have Benteke whos main strength is his heading ability, but he gets no service and is pillorised as a bad player now, the system isn't helping him. We have just got Tosun on loan from Everton, guess what, all his goals at Everton were headers, so don't expect he will be much better than Benteke with no service.

Dang! We'll just have to stick with Ayew then, who has managed to score more goals in half a season than Benteke has done in two. Point being he has natural instinct, finds himself in good positions, and importantly works his socks off every game.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (16 Jan 2020 8.20pm)

 

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View ex hibitionist's Profile ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 16 Jan 20 8.54pm Send a Private Message to ex hibitionist Add ex hibitionist as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

The key aspect about Roy is, he knows what the strengths and capability of his players and sets up his teams accordingly. There are many ways to win a football match, not conceding is a good start.
The big problem with his system is, we don't get our wingers to put crosses into the box, both Zaha and Townsend like to cut inside. We have Benteke whos main strength is his heading ability, but he gets no service and is pillorised as a bad player now, the system isn't helping him. We have just got Tosun on loan from Everton, guess what, all his goals at Everton were headers, so don't expect he will be much better than Benteke with no service.

Tosun scored against us I remember, but I don't remember his head being on the end of his ankle, he's a fox in the box not a target man

 

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 16 Jan 20 10.50pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

Wouldnít describe it as blind protection. Every manager has his faults, Hodgson included.

[Wasn't aimed directly at you, but he's not working miracles on a shoe string budget like many are claiming

But I will come on here and defend him against some of the more ludicrous charges - an example being your comment about him taking no interest in transfers .

In my opinion, he doesn't seem to be taking charge of the situation. He's mentioned that we need players and that "Dougie and Steve are working very hard to find them". He isn't kicking up too much of a fuss because he knows big name signings or upsetting the board will get him sacked. A younger more ambitious manager might not be so risk averse

The facts are that like any job, Hodgson is given objectives. Can you guess what his top priority one is ? If his methods result in his achieving that objective why on earth would he change them ? So yes, he knows how to keep us safe and how to keep his job - what would YOU do in the same situation ?

As above. Roy is very risk averse. This means he will keep us safe, with dull football and not attacking until we are 1 nil down. It feels like we are aiming for mediocrity, a bit like the Trevor Francis/Peter Taylor Eras

And if paying high wages should equate to league position then how do you explain Bentekeís salary; West Hamís wage bill....I could go on. If there was a direct correlation between wage bill and results then Man Utd should be somewhat nearer the top of the league than they are

I did say it was an oversimplification But by the same token, it's no surprise Man City are double champions and Norwich are bottom. Manchester United and Arsenal recently have been an example of bad management and what happens when you dont constantly strive to get better

 

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View MKCPFC's Profile MKCPFC Flag Spain/MK 16 Jan 20 11.02pm Send a Private Message to MKCPFC Add MKCPFC as a friend

Interesting that Vincente has now seemed to iron out all his early inconsistencies if we can call them that , like kneeling down at near post too early and communication to become an excellent keeper and probably our best since Nigel .

Obviously down to his natural ability but has the coaching helped ?

 

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View ARGILE OLD GEEZER's Profile ARGILE OLD GEEZER Flag PORTIMAO 17 Jan 20 8.00am Send a Private Message to ARGILE OLD GEEZER Add ARGILE OLD GEEZER as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

I acknowledge that Hodgson is doing a reasonable job and that he has not been properly supported with regard to resources.
I also acknowledge that plenty on here will tell me to Ďbe careful what I wish forí and point to Curbishley as an example of what can happen to a club when a respected manager leaves a club.
However, there is a part of me that looks forward to the day when he is not manager.
Iím fed up of seeing 10 men behind the ball regardless of the opposition, the use of three defensive midfield players each game, the negating of the strengths of Townsend and Zaha who play in very restricted manner often marooned around the half way line nowhere near the goal.
I despair of our lack of goals and inability to score in the first half (I think only one at home all season).
People point at Royís coaching strength but for me that is limited to the defensive side, and letís face it, itís much easier to set up a team to defend than to attack.
We pack our half with players, compress the space and leave few gaps for the opposition to exploit.
I am a long term supporter and have seen at play at Division 1 equivalent and know that historically we are doing really well.
This doesnít mean we should not aspire to a better.
We have a capable defence, solid midfield and a good goalkeeper which is a more than adequate foundation to enable us to play in a more adventurous fashion.

Tell me, how would you set up a team to score more goals without any strikers?

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 17 Jan 20 8.35am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

1) Hodgson could devise a way to play to support the strikers we have.
First and foremost Hodgson seems to want our forwards to pack the midfield and he mainly lauds Ayew and Townsend for their defensive work.
Benteke, Wickham, Sorloth have all struggled to be prolific under his system. Itís too easy to blame this on the assumption that they are all bad players.
Thereís no point in playing Benteke if you donít provide crosses and we rarely do under Hodgson.
Even Batshuayiís spell flatters to deceive as most of his league goals came in the last few games when we did actually attack.Prior to that he also had to endure time on the bench as he had struggled and looked ineffective in previous games without support.
2) In his first season Hodgson didnít have strikers and used Zaha and Townsend as split strikers which was effective for a time.
We played more on the front foot and Iím not sure why we have become so defensive this season.
3) I would doubt many people believe Hodgsonís methods are getting the best out of Zaha or Townsend.

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Online Flag CR3 17 Jan 20 8.40am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

1) Hodgson could devise a way to play to support the strikers we have.
First and foremost Hodgson seems to want our forwards to pack the midfield and he mainly lauds Ayew and Townsend for their defensive work.
Benteke, Wickham, Sorloth have all struggled to be prolific under his system. Itís too easy to blame this on the assumption that they are all bad players.
Thereís no point in playing Benteke if you donít provide crosses and we rarely do under Hodgson.
Even Batshuayiís spell flatters to deceive as most of his league goals came in the last few games when we did actually attack.Prior to that he also had to endure time on the bench as he had struggled and looked ineffective in previous games without support.
2) In his first season Hodgson didnít have strikers and used Zaha and Townsend as split strikers which was effective for a time.
We played more on the front foot and Iím not sure why we have become so defensive this season.
3) I would doubt many people believe Hodgsonís methods are getting the best out of Zaha or Townsend.

Good post, couldnít agree more.

 

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