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November 18 2019 3.19am

Continued mass shootings in America

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Aug 19 10.31pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Paul Joseph Watson on these two recent mass shootings.

[Link]

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Aug 19 10.58pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

And of course, you accept it without question.

Perhaps you would like to reproduce the statistics and reasoning behind your denial.

The trouble with your data from what I have seen is that it does not take into account increasing migration and the effect on genetics. It only talks about birth and mortality rates on the various continents.

One thing it does highlight is the rapid drop of European population after 2050. That will mean more and more economic migrants.


Of course I accept the report as the best available. Forecasts can only ever be forecasts but studies of this kind, from this source, can be trusted as objective

Why would anyone seek to challenge such an authoritative source unless they had an agenda it failed to meet?

They aren't "my" statistics! If you want to reproduce them they are there, and if you want more then go ask the UN.

Such a comprehensive study will take into account all known variables before reaching conclusions. Again if you want more detail of how the UN approached the task you must ask them for it.

That it forecasts change is true, but not on the ridiculous scale you have suggested. This will be change that produces challenges but ones that can be coped with.

As we were in general agreement about what a key element of how we should cope with these changes it's disappointing that you are so unrealistic about what actually these changes might be.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Aug 19 11.23pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Paul Joseph Watson is an English YouTube personality, radio host, writer and conspiracy theorist. He has been described as 'alt-right' by multiple sources.

Not my description, It comes from Wiki.

His video denouncing the Ohio shooter as a "left wing extremist" and his actions as comparable with those of the El Paso, who was a "right wing extremist", is blatant propaganda.

As I have noted in this thread before there is one key difference.

No-one knows what the motives of the Ohio shooter were. He gave no prior clue. What is known is that his victims were young, mostly black and included his own sister. It therefore does not seem very likely that his was an act in furtherance of a political ideology as he was known to be a left winger.

The El Paso shooter is quite different. He deliberately targeted Hispanics, travelling hundreds of miles to a place dominated by them. He made statements about his motives and intentions immediately prior to carrying them out. He is known to be a right winger.

Whether he drew direct inspiration from Trump is unknown, but the reason Trump is under fire is because his rhetoric, whether intentionally or not, has emboldened all white supremacists and believers in far right causes. Trump has enabled them to appear more respectable and mainstream. It helps them justify their beliefs in their own minds, which is even more dangerous if those minds are not sound.

That Trump is failing to acknowledge this and seeking to deflect the blame onto mental health issues and anything, or anyone, but himself is just typical of him.

That apologists like Paul Joseph Watson pop up spouting nonsense and some take what he says at face value and seriously is actually pretty shameful.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 05 Aug 19 11.46pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I see the 'one nation conservative' deems to be critical of Paul Joseph Watson.

Something that can be seen in the same light as his usual disingenuous commentary.

People can watch the video and make their own mind up.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 06 Aug 19 12.15am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

If anyone wants to alternate between laughter and amazement here is a video on the recent convention of the 'Democratic Socialists of America'.

Clown world.

[Link]

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 06 Aug 19 1.38am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have noted in this thread before there is one key difference.

No-one knows what the motives of the Ohio shooter were. He gave no prior clue. What is known is that his victims were young, mostly black and included his own sister. It therefore does not seem very likely that his was an act in furtherance of a political ideology as he was known to be a left winger.

The El Paso shooter is quite different. He deliberately targeted Hispanics, travelling hundreds of miles to a place dominated by them. He made statements about his motives and intentions immediately prior to carrying them out.

Well yes, this part of your assessment is certainly valid. If people are adamant that we should be comparing the reaction to these two specific acts, one we know the motive behind because the guy told us in detail, and the other we have no idea about yet, so that's a noteworthy distinction. A persons political ideology is neither here nor there 'if' it turns out it's not a reason behind their crime. Thus it's the Youtuber who is simultaneously politicising terror attacks in alignment with his own beliefs while also saying it's bad taste to do so.

Edited by dollardays (06 Aug 2019 1.40am)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 06 Aug 19 1.56am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

Well yes, this part of your assessment is certainly valid. If people are adamant that we should be comparing the reaction to these two specific acts, one we know the motive behind because the guy told us in detail, and the other we have no idea about yet, so that's a noteworthy distinction. A persons political ideology is neither here nor there 'if' it turns out it's not a reason behind their crime. Thus it's the Youtuber who is simultaneously politicising terror attacks in alignment with his own beliefs while also saying it's bad taste to do so.

Sure, however it's this poster who was doing that with Trump over this attack.....seemingly not caring or knowing that this Paso guy had described the Republican party as 'terrible' and supported universal healthcare and the environment and was against corporations......but because he did this terrible crime over replacement he's Trump's guy according to some.

Even though this guy says his beliefs predated Trump and weren't inspired by him.

What does Watson say in this video that you disagreed with?

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2019 2.04am)

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 06 Aug 19 2.08am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sure, however it's this poster who was doing that with Trump over this attack.....seemingly not caring or knowing that this Paso guy had described the Republican party as 'terrible' and supported universal healthcare and the environment.


Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2019 1.57am)

I would think that a great many Donald Trump supporters view Republicans to be terrible. He's something of a political game changer and drags the party along with him.

Being in favour of Universal Healthcare and looking after the environment can sit very comfortable with a tough stance on immigration. Some on here even fall into that box. So those views are not really counter to the acts he committed or the potential at least for being impacted by the invasion mantra.

An any case, I'll avoid getting drawn into anything too lengthy as I end up going word count crazy.

Edited by dollardays (06 Aug 2019 2.18am)

 

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View dollardays's Profile dollardays Flag 06 Aug 19 2.20am Send a Private Message to dollardays Add dollardays as a friend

El Paso Shootings: Father of victim 'forgives' his son's killer - [Link]

What strength and decency of character it displays to forgive in such circumstances. I very much doubt I could do that.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 06 Aug 19 2.25am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by dollardays

El Paso Shootings: Father of victim 'forgives' his son's killer - [Link]

What strength and decency of character it displays to forgive in such circumstances. I very much doubt I could do that.

Well I certainly couldn't.

He may forgive but we can't hear from the dead.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Aug 2019 2.26am)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 06 Aug 19 6.47am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Whatever excuses people offer the plain fact is that if the guns didn't exist then they could not be used.

I fully realise the different culture that exists in the USA and the extreme difficulties that would have to be overcome to achieve any kind of significant change. It can only be done in small steps over a significant period.

The biggest problem is the NRA who have many politicians by the sphericals because they rely on their funding. You cannot therefore just "get rid of them". Changing the way interest groups can fund, and therefore influence, politicians has to become a priority. If the alleged connection of the IRA to Russia can be proven in Court then a dent can possibly be made in their power. I believe the evidence for this exists but whether there is the political will to pursue it is an open question.

Trump isn't really "pro-gun"! Trump is only ever pro-Trump. Everything he does is focused on remaining as POTUS. It supporting the NRA helps achieve that then he will do it. Whether it costs lives is immaterial.

The House Democrats have proposed many changes to improve gun laws, improving background checks and limiting the sale of automatic weapons. They know full well that these have zero chance of passing in the Senate, where the GOP dominate. It's like trying to impeach Trump. They know it won't happen but still need to get the subject out there, so it can be put in front of the people.

Blimey for once we agree I hope it's not catching.

Yup agree with everything you say. The only realistic way to stop this is through banning guns but that won't happen overnight. The first step is to make it harder to buy legal guns and to ban the type of guns I would call semi automatic that the hunting people love "Ok Bambi make my day". If the politicians can demonstrate that restricting gun sales decreases gun crime then I think the public would eventually accept more and more restrictions.

Stirlingsays maybe correct that if the Democrats are due to for a long period in power then they should be able to do this.

And I agree about Trump he's pro gun for the votes he is not ideologically committed.

 


One more point

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 06 Aug 19 8.43am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


It seems odd that so many Americans are fervent in their support of the 2nd amendment whereas the 1st amendment mentions freedom of religion and freedom of speech, neither of which have been particularly well supported of late.
Apart from the famous 5th amendment it makes you question how many others people could name.

 

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