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December 14 2019 4.33pm

Do we need a Witchfinder General?

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Nov 19 3.20pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by johnno42000

It doesn't matter in the slightest but you can't say immigrants did it if they aren't immigrants.

If they don't have any UK genes....As in no genes from people who have inhabited these islands or Europe for centuries then genetically they come from elsewhere.

I recognise that if someone really wants to be 'English' for example and that they have an undiluted allegiance to being English....then, in a sense, I accept that we are all more than just genes. Some of the most passionately 'English' or 'British' can have only a moderate level of actual genes from here.

Good people are good people, regardless of where they are from. I made plenty of foreign friends as a former teacher.....but that doesn't mean that they were 'British'.

To think otherwise is just weaponized empathy in my book.....people wanting to use nationality as a gift that can be thrown out like confetti.

As we can see from what emerged from Labour's conference on immigration and voting rights.


Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Nov 2019 3.31pm)

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Nov 19 3.35pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by johnno42000

The point was raised regarding immigrants. IMO these people aren't immigrants so you can't say, if they commit a knife crime, that immigrants did it.

Jesus Johnno, you are either being deliberately obtuse or you are on a windup.

Without immigration, the people in question would not be here. The fact that they did not immigrate here themselves and are therefore not 'immigrants' is a not a significant fator.
Are you going to spend another 100 posts telling me they are not immigrants or focus on the causes and source of this culture of criminality?

 

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 18 Nov 19 6.03pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Jesus Johnno, you are either being deliberately obtuse or you are on a windup.

Without immigration, the people in question would not be here. The fact that they did not immigrate here themselves and are therefore not 'immigrants' is a not a significant fator.
Are you going to spend another 100 posts telling me they are not immigrants or focus on the causes and source of this culture of criminality?

Life is too short to go around in circles so this and my reply to Stirling will be my last. If an immigrant commits a crime blame an immigrant. If someone who isn't an immigrant commits a crime don't blame an immigrant. Pretty straightforward really, now I'm off to watch Alf Garnett to see what he thinks

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 18 Nov 19 6.08pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If they don't have any UK genes....As in no genes from people who have inhabited these islands or Europe for centuries then genetically they come from elsewhere.

I recognise that if someone really wants to be 'English' for example and that they have an undiluted allegiance to being English....then, in a sense, I accept that we are all more than just genes. Some of the most passionately 'English' or 'British' can have only a moderate level of actual genes from here.

Good people are good people, regardless of where they are from. I made plenty of foreign friends as a former teacher.....but that doesn't mean that they were 'British'.

To think otherwise is just weaponized empathy in my book.....people wanting to use nationality as a gift that can be thrown out like confetti.

As we can see from what emerged from Labour's conference on immigration and voting rights.


Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Nov 2019 3.31pm)

You have chosen a time frame (hundreds of years). Not too sure why that period is used? Why not use 50 years or 3,000 years?

Anyhow enjoyed the debate but life is too short to go around in circles so this will be my last on this thread. I'm off to watch Alf Garnett to see what he thinks

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 18 Nov 19 7.08pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by johnno42000

You have chosen a time frame (hundreds of years). Not too sure why that period is used? Why not use 50 years or 3,000 years?

Hundreds of years conveys a historical attachment to these isles. Fifty years isn't even an average lifetime here.

Originally posted by johnno42000

Anyhow enjoyed the debate but life is too short to go around in circles so this will be my last on this thread. I'm off to watch Alf Garnett to see what he thinks

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Nov 19 8.26pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by johnno42000

Life is too short to go around in circles so this and my reply to Stirling will be my last. If an immigrant commits a crime blame an immigrant. If someone who isn't an immigrant commits a crime don't blame an immigrant. Pretty straightforward really, now I'm off to watch Alf Garnett to see what he thinks

Alf Garnett was a fictitious character from a left wing propaganda piece.
Since you appear to like living in a fantasy, you two should get on well.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 19 Nov 19 12.46pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Alf Garnett was a fictitious character from a left wing propaganda piece.
Since you appear to like living in a fantasy, you two should get on well.

Amazing isn't it. Most people who can remember it will still see Till Death Us Do Part as a reactionary right wing show from the 60's and 70's when it was clearly just a left wing vehicle to show us how nasty and racist all us white working class people were. Black people however (obviously) were shown to be nothing but reasonable and mild mannered.

"Philip Purser, in his obituary of Warren Mitchell (16 November), surprisingly made no mention of Unity Theatre as a formative experience. Mitchell, along with other household names like Alfie Bass, Harry Landis, Lionel Bart, Bob Hoskins and Bill Owen all cut their thespian teeth at Unity, performing alongside amateurs for mainly working-class audiences from Londonís East End. As it was very much a communist-run enterprise, Unity was also where such actors got their politics, and Warren Mitchell remained a life-long socialist, as did most of the others"

[Link]

What will it take for people to understand that they have been played all along.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Nov 19 12.53pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Amazing isn't it. Most people who can remember it will still see Till Death Us Do Part as a reactionary right wing show from the 60's and 70's when it was clearly just a left wing vehicle to show us how nasty and racist all us white working class people were. Black people however (obviously) were shown to be nothing but reasonable and mild mannered.

"Philip Purser, in his obituary of Warren Mitchell (16 November), surprisingly made no mention of Unity Theatre as a formative experience. Mitchell, along with other household names like Alfie Bass, Harry Landis, Lionel Bart, Bob Hoskins and Bill Owen all cut their thespian teeth at Unity, performing alongside amateurs for mainly working-class audiences from Londonís East End. As it was very much a communist-run enterprise, Unity was also where such actors got their politics, and Warren Mitchell remained a life-long socialist, as did most of the others"

[Link]

What will it take for people to understand that they have been played all along.

Similar to the 'Pub Landlord' Al Murray character.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 19 Nov 19 1.12pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Similar to the 'Pub Landlord' Al Murray character.

And like Warren Mitchell a highly privaledged Oxford graduate although "Alistair James Hay Murray" is related to Dukes and Barons and Knights of the realm.

Yet they have so much insight into the problems and prejudices of the (white) working classes.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Nov 19 1.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by W12

And like Warren Mitchell a highly privaledged Oxford graduate although "Alistair James Hay Murray" is related to Dukes and Barons and Knights of the realm.

Yet they have so much insight into the problems and prejudices of the (white) working classes.

It's the same old story with most of the middle and higher classes (not all).

At least in WW1 they went over the top with the Tommy and met the same fate.

Now they hold their noses and betray their own and think they have virtue, while they distance themselves from any trouble.....But eventually even they won't be able to run (unless they abandon the country) and there would be a kind of justice to that.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2019 1.22pm)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Nov 19 1.43pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Amazing isn't it. Most people who can remember it will still see Till Death Us Do Part as a reactionary right wing show from the 60's and 70's when it was clearly just a left wing vehicle to show us how nasty and racist all us white working class people were. Black people however (obviously) were shown to be nothing but reasonable and mild mannered.

"Philip Purser, in his obituary of Warren Mitchell (16 November), surprisingly made no mention of Unity Theatre as a formative experience. Mitchell, along with other household names like Alfie Bass, Harry Landis, Lionel Bart, Bob Hoskins and Bill Owen all cut their thespian teeth at Unity, performing alongside amateurs for mainly working-class audiences from Londonís East End. As it was very much a communist-run enterprise, Unity was also where such actors got their politics, and Warren Mitchell remained a life-long socialist, as did most of the others"

[Link]

What will it take for people to understand that they have been played all along.

In Fairness to Warren Mitchell and Johnny Speight they never made any secret that Alf garnet was mean to be a figure to be ridiculed and exposed for his working class hypocrisy. I think what surprised them was the number of people who agreed with Alf.

 


One more point

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Nov 19 1.51pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by W12

And like Warren Mitchell a highly privaledged Oxford graduate although "Alistair James Hay Murray" is related to Dukes and Barons and Knights of the realm.

Yet they have so much insight into the problems and prejudices of the (white) working classes.

He showed his true colours when he was asked to be a guest Film Reviewer standing in on 5live for the regular guys. I think even the BBC was surprised at how pathetic he was. They thought they were getting the self opinionated Pub Landlord who would make juicy comments about certain actors and films.

Instead they got a pussy who wouldn't / couldn't criticise any of the films he saw. He made Corbyn seem decisive, after that pathetic showing he wasn't asked back.

He would have been better doing the show as Pub Landlord rather than himself.

 


One more point

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