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July 15 2020 6.43am

Gerry Adams

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 13 May 20 8.32pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Sinn Fein have now joined the LGBT-Multiculti Liberal Leftie brigade.

It is ironic that a so-called Catholic party is pro-Abortion, pro divorce, pro Gay.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 May 2020 7.29pm)

You left out kneecapping, indiscriminate bombing, and sectarian murder.

 

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View jeeagles's Profile jeeagles Flag 13 May 20 9.04pm Send a Private Message to jeeagles Add jeeagles as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

[Link]

Isn't our 'justice' system wonderful (well it does make you wonder).

If it was wrongful imprissonment than it's the right thing to do. The British have to make sure they are whiter than white in Ireland. Had we not abandoned our sense of right and wrong the Irish independence movement may have never gained sympathy from the masses and thousands of people wouldn't have died.

On the other hand, what is Gerry Adam's motivation for seaking this now. If it gets attention, it highlights old wounds to a new generation, if it got rejected he could have claimed it was more British opression. If he gets let off the hook, it sturs up anger from the Unionist.

Seems like the history of these type of conflicts, everyones looking to play the victim so they can get away with atrocities.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 14 May 20 9.29am Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Sinn Fein have now joined the LGBT-Multiculti Liberal Leftie brigade.

It is ironic that a so-called Catholic party is pro-Abortion, pro divorce, pro Gay.

Maybe old-school conservative Catholic voters in West Belfast will need to vote DUP in order to get some old-school values.

And if you are a prod and a Leftie or Gay ? maybe you will cross the peace-line and vote Shinner ?

Sinn Fein nearly won the general election in the Republic. Without Gerry Adams they were far less caustic. So it looks like Gerry kept SF in the political wilderness in the Republic for at least a dozen years.

Gerry seems to be a political T-Rex. A violent obsolete dinosaur.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 May 2020 7.29pm)

Are they also now anti-Nazi?

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 14 May 20 9.33am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Sinn Fein have now joined the LGBT-Multiculti Liberal Leftie brigade.

It is ironic that a so-called Catholic party is pro-Abortion, pro divorce, pro Gay.

Maybe old-school conservative Catholic voters in West Belfast will need to vote DUP in order to get some old-school values.

And if you are a prod and a Leftie or Gay ? maybe you will cross the peace-line and vote Shinner ?

Sinn Fein nearly won the general election in the Republic. Without Gerry Adams they were far less caustic. So it looks like Gerry kept SF in the political wilderness in the Republic for at least a dozen years.

Gerry seems to be a political T-Rex. A violent obsolete dinosaur.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 May 2020 7.29pm)

Now that they have dropped violence politically they are similar to the SNP.

When there was the recent election result I found it odd that several of the major Irish parties refused to go into coalition with Sinn Fein citing their links with the IRA etc. It's odd because those same parties are fine with Sein Fein being in government in the north?

 


One more point

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 May 20 12.32pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Now that they have dropped violence politically they are similar to the SNP.

When there was the recent election result I found it odd that several of the major Irish parties refused to go into coalition with Sinn Fein citing their links with the IRA etc. It's odd because those same parties are fine with Sein Fein being in government in the north?

It's a complicated history that would probably require a lecture series on the history of Ireland in the 20th Century, but to cut a long story short:

The northern Sinn Fein party originates in the Civil Rights movement and then the troubles.

The southern Sinn Fein party can claim longer roots back to 1916 and then the War of Independence but, more importantly for politics today - and the relationship with the other Irish parties - is the Civil War where Sinn Fein in the Republic are mainly based on the anti-treaty side of the Civil War.

For Irish politics, that means that Fine Gael - who are the outgoing government have a deep-rooted animosity with Sinn Fein - as Fine Gael are essentially the pro-treaty, Free State government party originating after the War of Independence. They would have been responsible for the execution of (off the top of my head) 96 anti-treaty supporters - and the imprisonment of hundreds of others [a familiar story you might think]. The anti-treaty side also carried out assassinations of leading Cumman na Gael politicians (Cumman na Gael is the original name of Fine Gael).

The relationship between Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail is mired in a split within it's own party - with some Fianna Fail remaining staunchly anti-treaty and Republican, whilst De Valera and other leaders who followed, gradually removed that element of the party. At the time of negotiations for NI - Fianna Fail dropped the Republican claim to the North - further dividing them from Sinn Fein.

It is further complicated by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael being basically the same in policy - excluding any of Sinn Fein's social and political ideas and also originating in a split in a belief over the treaty - ostensibly over 'The Oath' (allegiance to the King/Queen and Commonwealth) . [to oversimplify it dramatically].

Sinn Fein has become a Left Wing, nationalist party in the North and in the Republic now - making the two parts of the party similar today but with different roots.

Some interesting points on current Sinn Fein are - they are essentially anti-EU but cannot comment too much on that. Whilst Brexit was going on they enjoyed berating that but paradoxically they would do the same; if they thought it possible. I'm not sure how pragmatic they are, as everything in their manifesto sounded too good to be true.

A summary would be: more social houses to tackle homelessness. No individual tax rises but companies and the rich were going to contribute more (not sure how that would work). The Health Service was to be sorted out somehow. God knows how - broken for a long time. Waiting list was over 600,000 before the Pandemic - there is no point in looking at it now, I would suggest.

I guess the main point for Irish politics is that people voted for Sinn Fein in order to get rid of the other two: FF and FG - who have imposed austerity through mismanagement and have handled the homeless crisis, in particular, with complete indifference, and before that the banking crisis. Then FG and FF have the balls to form a government between them - when they supposedly have opposing views - but obviously don't. I would think this will be the final straw for FG and FF and Sinn Fein have their destiny in their own hands for the next election.

Coming back to Gerry Adams - no-one really cares anymore - he's a side show now. It is a new, shiny, normal down-to-earth woman in Mary Lou McDonald that matters now - and she is very resonant with large parts of the voting public. I used to dislike Sinn Fein with Gerry Adams, so did many others, but it's quite easy to like Mary Lou - she seems tougher and less slimy [by a long way] than our other alternatives - including very much the incumbent.

If you can be bothered to read this feel free to lambast me on where you disagree. You will essentially be replicating the last hundred years of Irish political thought by arguing these points. Each party has it's own nuanced lines for this and most people strongly identify with one version of events, demonstrating their political bias.

I'll do a Zoom tutorial for you all later so take notes.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 14 May 20 12.53pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

It's a complicated history that would probably require a lecture series on the history of Ireland in the 20th Century, but to cut a long story short:

The northern Sinn Fein party originates in the Civil Rights movement and then the troubles.

The southern Sinn Fein party can claim longer roots back to 1916 and then the War of Independence but, more importantly for politics today - and the relationship with the other Irish parties - is the Civil War where Sinn Fein in the Republic are mainly based on the anti-treaty side of the Civil War.

For Irish politics, that means that Fine Gael - who are the outgoing government have a deep-rooted animosity with Sinn Fein - as Fine Gael are essentially the pro-treaty, Free State government party originating after the War of Independence. They would have been responsible for the execution of (off the top of my head) 96 anti-treaty supporters - and the imprisonment of hundreds of others [a familiar story you might think]. The anti-treaty side also carried out assassinations of leading Cumman na Gael politicians (Cumman na Gael is the original name of Fine Gael).

The relationship between Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail is mired in a split within it's own party - with some Fianna Fail remaining staunchly anti-treaty and Republican, whilst De Valera and other leaders who followed, gradually removed that element of the party. At the time of negotiations for NI - Fianna Fail dropped the Republican claim to the North - further dividing them from Sinn Fein.

It is further complicated by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael being basically the same in policy - excluding any of Sinn Fein's social and political ideas and also originating in a split in a belief over the treaty - ostensibly over 'The Oath' (allegiance to the King/Queen and Commonwealth) . [to oversimplify it dramatically].

Sinn Fein has become a Left Wing, nationalist party in the North and in the Republic now - making the two parts of the party similar today but with different roots.

Some interesting points on current Sinn Fein are - they are essentially anti-EU but cannot comment too much on that. Whilst Brexit was going on they enjoyed berating that but paradoxically they would do the same; if they thought it possible. I'm not sure how pragmatic they are, as everything in their manifesto sounded too good to be true.

A summary would be: more social houses to tackle homelessness. No individual tax rises but companies and the rich were going to contribute more (not sure how that would work). The Health Service was to be sorted out somehow. God knows how - broken for a long time. Waiting list was over 600,000 before the Pandemic - there is no point in looking at it now, I would suggest.

I guess the main point for Irish politics is that people voted for Sinn Fein in order to get rid of the other two: FF and FG - who have imposed austerity through mismanagement and have handled the homeless crisis, in particular, with complete indifference, and before that the banking crisis. Then FG and FF have the balls to form a government between them - when they supposedly have opposing views - but obviously don't. I would think this will be the final straw for FG and FF and Sinn Fein have their destiny in their own hands for the next election.

Coming back to Gerry Adams - no-one really cares anymore - he's a side show now. It is a new, shiny, normal down-to-earth woman in Mary Lou McDonald that matters now - and she is very resonant with large parts of the voting public. I used to dislike Sinn Fein with Gerry Adams, so did many others, but it's quite easy to like Mary Lou - she seems tougher and less slimy [by a long way] than our other alternatives - including very much the incumbent.

If you can be bothered to read this feel free to lambast me on where you disagree. You will essentially be replicating the last hundred years of Irish political thought by arguing these points. Each party has it's own nuanced lines for this and most people strongly identify with one version of events, demonstrating their political bias.

I'll do a Zoom tutorial for you all later so take notes.


Excellent post ASCPFC. Very well explained and informative, lots of people have no idea of the history of Ireland over here, anor the inkling to find out before giving their opinion, usually making themselves look stupid oafs! i always think about a programme i saw about Johnny adair, the notorious loyalist terrorist leader, he said if he was born a few miles down the road in the falls road, he would certainly have been in the Ira, a bit like the post code wars we have over here with the kids!

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 14 May 20 1.12pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

You left out kneecapping, indiscriminate bombing, and sectarian murder.

in Ulster today, Political terrorism has largely been replaced by Narco Terrorism.

Its all about territory & a turf war. Neighbourhoods divide along Catholic/Protestant lines as do those who sell the drugs to them.

Not that different to Croydon versus Bermondsey.

During the troubles there may have been sympathy for IRA/UVF from Sinn Fein and DUP respectively....but today the political parties want to vehemently distance themselves from tatooed nutters with guns.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (14 May 2020 1.19pm)

 


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 May 20 1.40pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud


Excellent post ASCPFC. Very well explained and informative, lots of people have no idea of the history of Ireland over here, anor the inkling to find out before giving their opinion, usually making themselves look stupid oafs! i always think about a programme i saw about Johnny adair, the notorious loyalist terrorist leader, he said if he was born a few miles down the road in the falls road, he would certainly have been in the Ira, a bit like the post code wars we have over here with the kids!

Thanks. Funny you should say that- I saw the same thing.

It reminds me of when Dessie O'Hare (The Border Fox) was hiding out, from the other Republicans due to an internal divide, down the road from me and he is on the other side of the political divide. I say reminds me of because so many used to get the two names mixed up.

The kids over here are emulating the South London gangs now - but I guess that's another thread. Fine examples to follow. Have you seen the latest? - point system for where you stab people - with accompanying Rap explaining the rules. But I'm off on a tangent.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 14 May 20 1.53pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

It's a complicated history that would probably require a lecture series on the history of Ireland in the 20th Century, but to cut a long story short:

The northern Sinn Fein party originates in the Civil Rights movement and then the troubles.

The southern Sinn Fein party can claim longer roots back to 1916 and then the War of Independence but, more importantly for politics today - and the relationship with the other Irish parties - is the Civil War where Sinn Fein in the Republic are mainly based on the anti-treaty side of the Civil War.

For Irish politics, that means that Fine Gael - who are the outgoing government have a deep-rooted animosity with Sinn Fein - as Fine Gael are essentially the pro-treaty, Free State government party originating after the War of Independence. They would have been responsible for the execution of (off the top of my head) 96 anti-treaty supporters - and the imprisonment of hundreds of others [a familiar story you might think]. The anti-treaty side also carried out assassinations of leading Cumman na Gael politicians (Cumman na Gael is the original name of Fine Gael).

The relationship between Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail is mired in a split within it's own party - with some Fianna Fail remaining staunchly anti-treaty and Republican, whilst De Valera and other leaders who followed, gradually removed that element of the party. At the time of negotiations for NI - Fianna Fail dropped the Republican claim to the North - further dividing them from Sinn Fein.

It is further complicated by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael being basically the same in policy - excluding any of Sinn Fein's social and political ideas and also originating in a split in a belief over the treaty - ostensibly over 'The Oath' (allegiance to the King/Queen and Commonwealth) . [to oversimplify it dramatically].

Sinn Fein has become a Left Wing, nationalist party in the North and in the Republic now - making the two parts of the party similar today but with different roots.

Some interesting points on current Sinn Fein are - they are essentially anti-EU but cannot comment too much on that. Whilst Brexit was going on they enjoyed berating that but paradoxically they would do the same; if they thought it possible. I'm not sure how pragmatic they are, as everything in their manifesto sounded too good to be true.

A summary would be: more social houses to tackle homelessness. No individual tax rises but companies and the rich were going to contribute more (not sure how that would work). The Health Service was to be sorted out somehow. God knows how - broken for a long time. Waiting list was over 600,000 before the Pandemic - there is no point in looking at it now, I would suggest.

I guess the main point for Irish politics is that people voted for Sinn Fein in order to get rid of the other two: FF and FG - who have imposed austerity through mismanagement and have handled the homeless crisis, in particular, with complete indifference, and before that the banking crisis. Then FG and FF have the balls to form a government between them - when they supposedly have opposing views - but obviously don't. I would think this will be the final straw for FG and FF and Sinn Fein have their destiny in their own hands for the next election.

Coming back to Gerry Adams - no-one really cares anymore - he's a side show now. It is a new, shiny, normal down-to-earth woman in Mary Lou McDonald that matters now - and she is very resonant with large parts of the voting public. I used to dislike Sinn Fein with Gerry Adams, so did many others, but it's quite easy to like Mary Lou - she seems tougher and less slimy [by a long way] than our other alternatives - including very much the incumbent.

If you can be bothered to read this feel free to lambast me on where you disagree. You will essentially be replicating the last hundred years of Irish political thought by arguing these points. Each party has it's own nuanced lines for this and most people strongly identify with one version of events, demonstrating their political bias.

I'll do a Zoom tutorial for you all later so take notes.

I don't disagree with your assessment still I stand by my point the parties in the north have had to look past their hatred and shared history to find some sort of an accommodation. The recent comments from the two main parties in the south about Sinn Feinn sounded more like the parties in the north during the troubles "never never never".

I guess when it is someone else it is easy to tell them they have to compromise when it's you not so easy.

 


One more point

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 14 May 20 2.05pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Of course, the elephant in the Ulster room is an imminent Catholic demographic majority. And Prods falling below 49% of voters.

the decision of SF to garner the ethnic vote is designed to accelerate their grip on Stormont. Lots of Catholic Polish voters. Not likely to vote DUP.

There is a strong Prod majority among the nonagenarian's at the retirement homes. And a strong Catholic majority at the local Creche.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (14 May 2020 2.16pm)

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, the Vitality, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford.....Raptors on the Road

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 14 May 20 2.38pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Thanks. Funny you should say that- I saw the same thing.

It reminds me of when Dessie O'Hare (The Border Fox) was hiding out, from the other Republicans due to an internal divide, down the road from me and he is on the other side of the political divide. I say reminds me of because so many used to get the two names mixed up.

The kids over here are emulating the South London gangs now - but I guess that's another thread. Fine examples to follow. Have you seen the latest? - point system for where you stab people - with accompanying Rap explaining the rules. But I'm off on a tangent.


Yes, the youngsters over there have definately taken a leaf out of the "yoot" over here, not all obviously, and in Dublin the turf wars are absllutely crazy, they seem to have more actual gang warfare there than we do here, most of the gangsters gave up when the Albanians took over everything, i read that they have control of the whole of the uk now except for Liverpool!

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 14 May 20 2.47pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud


Yes, the youngsters over there have definately taken a leaf out of the "yoot" over here, not all obviously, and in Dublin the turf wars are absllutely crazy, they seem to have more actual gang warfare there than we do here, most of the gangsters gave up when the Albanians took over everything, i read that they have control of the whole of the uk now except for Liverpool!

Tirhana is a wealthy paradise compared to Merseyside. There is a reason Mother Teresa went to Calcutta instead of Toxteth.

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, the Vitality, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford.....Raptors on the Road

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