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July 11 2020 5.49am

Gerry Adams

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 15 May 20 10.08pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Looks like liam Neeson needs to intervene.
Sorted them out 3 times already.

I"ll see if he"s busy

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 May 20 10.23pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

I"ll see if he"s busy

He's taken for a while.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 15 May 20 10.36pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

He's taken for a while.

Glad to see we move in the same circles ascpfc

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 16 May 20 11.47am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Why does gerry Adams have a British surname ? and he was replaced by Mary Lou McDonald....a nice Scottish surname.

Why did one of the Shankill Butchers ( 'british sectarian murder gang in belfast) have leaders withan irish name ? Murphy.

[Link]

 


from the Etihad, Emirates, Molyneux, London Stadium, the Vitality, turf moor & Anfield to Old Trafford.....Raptors on the Road

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 May 20 2.50pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Why does gerry Adams have a British surname ? and he was replaced by Mary Lou McDonald....a nice Scottish surname.

Why did one of the Shankill Butchers ( 'british sectarian murder gang in belfast) have leaders withan irish name ? Murphy.

[Link]

The ethnicity of people in Ireland (and indeed many places including England) is more complicated than I can go into here - particularly the root of the surnames. But being the way I am I will try to explain concisely somewhat. [Not sure there are even any academic works on this - none that are definitive anyway so please don't shoot the messenger!].

I would have to go back to the Gaelic (indigenous people) (Celts) and the Gaul (usually spelled differently here) - Normans and Saxons who were any outsiders in reality - as they were seen by the indigenous population - Gaul - basically French speaking. I would also have to go back to a time where Scotland and Ireland were seen by some as the Kingdom and not by others.

Then I would have to look at the original invasion in the 12th Century and its effects by what was considered to the Gaul (not the Brits - you might be surprised but of course, Norman customs whilst many were actually Saxons), followed by the period of Anglicisation of society, somewhat (but not that deeply). Conversely the counter-argument of the Early settlers becoming 'more Irish than the Irish themselves' exists: essentially leaving an Early Modern divide between Old English (Catholic and sometimes Irish speaking with varying degrees of Gaelicisation) and New English, Newcomers who came over during the Reformation - looked on as the Adventurers and pillagers (you would know some of them Edmund Spenser, Walter Raleigh would be examples). Far crueller ones you will not have heard of and I won't go into it.

This left some with Saxon names, some with Norman names, some with Gaelic names and some with English names.

There are even Gaelic people who bought a 'Certificate of Englishness' as part of 'Surrender and Re-grant' under Henry VIII. Basically, you paid your money, took English clothes, customs, hairstyle and language and you were often renamed on the spot - hence English, Irish and Scot being surnames. So if you had a Gaelic name then the official would just say - 'You are now Mr English' or 'Mr Irish' etc once you paid your money.

This is further complicated by the (never spoken about, largely secret) name changes that happened more recently - often just before and during the War of Independence and Civil War. In some places your family might face retribution for (usually - there are exceptions and this is by no means a catch all) having an English name. You may be considered a 'Brit' and have your house burnt down or crops or animals destroyed etc. Not usually fatal attacks I might add. Of course, an element of shame was also produced. Hence, for example, say your name was Commons - person of the Commons, you may well have been Irish, New English or Old English originally, but gradually received that name. You would Gaelicise it in the War of Independence to O'Cumain or some such name - looks Irish and can basically translate to Irish but has no actual historical link to ancestry - merely a convenience. I don't advise asking too much about it though! People can still be funny about this.

So, the names do not give away fully a person's roots - or indeed beliefs. These have morphed over time and names are not the best indicator - perhaps actions are. Language is a good one but is complicated by the fact that the seemingly fine (to Irish history and people) Old English were Catholic and largely spoke Irish and adopted Irish customs (reminds me of the Poles). The New English were, of course, Protestant - so that is very much in evidence in Dublin and Northern Ireland and reflected in names. Perhaps not so much in the Irish Countryside where Protestantism is so rare that barely any protestant churches remain (other than abandoned or ruined) outside large towns or cities. So further complicating any identities is the issue of religion.

I have left loads out as I am boring everyone. I hope this makes some kind of sense to someone.

I suppose just think of your own names and where they actually come from and what they mean and you can probably see that it doesn't fully explain who you are, or what you do. My name is funny that way and so are many others.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View croydon proud's Profile croydon proud Flag croydon 16 May 20 3.14pm Send a Private Message to croydon proud Add croydon proud as a friend

Another great post ASCPFC, well written and easy to understand even thou it is complicated, are you a history teacher?

Edited by Midlands Eagle (17 May 2020 7.44am)

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 17 May 20 7.44am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I have left loads out as I am boring everyone. I hope this makes some kind of sense to someone.

Not boring as it was very informative. Thanks

 

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 17 May 20 2.45pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

There is a fine line between 'terrorist' and 'freedom-fighter'.
In almost all cases, it involves murder.

Nelson Mandela, being , probably, the highest-profile.

Murder is never right, Ever. But it's what brings parties to the negotiating table, unfortunately.

 


,.,.,..,

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View Forest Hillbilly's Profile Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 17 May 20 2.49pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Ask any Irish person about their thoughts on Winston Churchill. What he promised and what he delivered.

Irish people mostly see WC as a war criminal.

 


,.,.,..,

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View eagleman13's Profile eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 17 May 20 4.12pm Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Ask any Irish person about their thoughts on Winston Churchill. What he promised and what he delivered.

Irish people mostly see WC as a war criminal.

As do Germany, Russia, China, Wales, Scotland, England, Malaysia, Denmark, Norway, Burma etc etc

Need i go on? He did the job he was paid to do, end of!

 


Is joining the 'Grumpy Old Gits' Club

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 17 May 20 4.29pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by eagleman13

As do Germany, Russia, China, Wales, Scotland, England, Malaysia, Denmark, Norway, Burma etc etc

Need i go on? He did the job he was paid to do, end of!

And did it very well. We could all be speaking german and still in the EU if old WC didnt have a pair. I'm glad our present PM has a pair as well as will be shown going forwards.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 May 20 4.40pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Another great post ASCPFC, well written and easy to understand even thou it is complicated, are you a history teacher?

Edited by Midlands Eagle (17 May 2020 7.44am)

I'm more of a historian than history teacher but I do teach history on occasion. I'm not famous or anything. There was a time I wrote a bit, lecture toured a bit but I mainly do history in the pub these days. That is, if we ever see the pub again.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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