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July 7 2020 4.29am

Cummings must go

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 28 Jun 20 10.36pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

This really is a big one. Civil servants starting to lose their independence from Government. Moving towards the US model. And there is no doubt it was The Mekon. Rutnam and Sedwill. Wonder who will be next

We’ll probably end up with a bunch of schoolchildren at the top of the civil service, same as the Government.

As Yes Minister used to articulate beautifully, the Ministers thought they ran the Country but were in fact ‘managed’ by the Civil servants. Sounds like the lunatics are now about to take over the asylum.

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 28 Jun 20 10.52pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

The civil service has for years served the government of the day whatever party was in power.

Its job should be to act as a critical friend. Civil Servants do not speak out publically whilst in service despite the bullying and abuse levelled at them often from all sides.

But we have probably since the Blair years seen government attempts to politicise public service.

This cannot be a good thing as unchecked power of any political persuasion does little or no good.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 28 Jun 20 10.53pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

As Yes Minister used to articulate beautifully, the Ministers thought they ran the Country but were in fact ‘managed’ by the Civil servants. Sounds like the lunatics are now about to take over the asylum.

But the lunatics are not Ministers. Not elected. Completely unregulated and answering to no one that is in any way capable of reining in their egos.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Jun 20 10.58pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

This really is a big one. Civil servants starting to lose their independence from Government. Moving towards the US model. And there is no doubt it was The Mekon. Rutnam and Sedwill. Wonder who will be next

We’ll probably end up with a bunch of schoolchildren at the top of the civil service, same as the Government.

Had it occurred to you that they might be routing out the people who stand in the way of progress? Or maybe have a little bit too much socialist in them?
Maybe they are just dirty and have been getting away with it for too long.

In the end, the Government ideally need to make this country a better place and not have people working for them who are part of the problem.

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 28 Jun 20 11.05pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

But the lunatics are not Ministers. Not elected. Completely unregulated and answering to no one that is in any way capable of reining in their egos.

All Civil Servants are subject to the civil service code and are answerable to places like the PAC and a wealth of regulatory bodies. They are there to deliver public services often under huge pressure. Let's remember stuff like all the measures to pay people affected by COVID was implemented by civil servants and OK might not be perfect but the country would have been very different without it.

Edited by orpingtoneagle (28 Jun 2020 11.09pm)

 

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View orpingtoneagle's Profile orpingtoneagle Flag Orpington 28 Jun 20 11.08pm Send a Private Message to orpingtoneagle Add orpingtoneagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Had it occurred to you that they might be routing out the people who stand in the way of progress? Or maybe have a little bit too much socialist in them?
Maybe they are just dirty and have been getting away with it for too long.

In the end, the Government ideally need to make this country a better place and not have people working for them who are part of the problem.

I assume you have met Mr Sedwell then and know his political leanings?

Maybe he simply pointed out to those unelected advisors appointed by patronage that sometimes their grand plans may not work.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 28 Jun 20 11.11pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Had it occurred to you that they might be routing out the people who stand in the way of progress? Or maybe have a little bit too much socialist in them?
Maybe they are just dirty and have been getting away with it for too long.

In the end, the Government ideally need to make this country a better place and not have people working for them who are part of the problem.

Yes it had occurred to me.

Then I looked at who was doing it

When you have a massively complex machine only the terminally naive sack the people that best understand how it runs. You wouldn’t do it in a cannery let alone with a multi billion pound enterprise.

We’ll see if the Mekon really does have a plan. It had better be brilliant. So not like the COVID debacle.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 28 Jun 20 11.14pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

All Civil Servants are subject to the civil service code and are answerable to places like the PAC and a wealth of regulatory bodies. They are there to deliver public services often under huge pressure. Let's remember stuff like all the measures to pay people affected by COVID was implemented by civil servants and OK might not be perfect but the country would have been very different without it.

Edited by orpingtoneagle (28 Jun 2020 11.09pm)

The lunatics to whom I refer are not the civil servants. It is those who currently are whispering ‘my precious’ as they wiggle the ring of power off the civil servants‘ dead fingers.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Jun 20 8.02am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Had it occurred to you that they might be routing out the people who stand in the way of progress? Or maybe have a little bit too much socialist in them?
Maybe they are just dirty and have been getting away with it for too long.

In the end, the Government ideally need to make this country a better place and not have people working for them who are part of the problem.

The Civil Service has not faced a structural reform in along time. If you think about the rest of the economy it is hugely different from say the 1970's.

If certain people are blocking reform of the service it is not only the responsibility of the government but the duty to move these people to one side.

We have seen with the virus how flat footed the government response has been. One of the issues has been who is in charge as responsibility is spread around the service.

The government is politically responsible but it is the job of the Civil Service to carry out the government's orders. If this needs a shakeup of the management structure that is not a bad thing.


Edited by Badger11 (29 Jun 2020 8.03am)

 


One more point

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 29 Jun 20 8.30am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

The Civil Service has not faced a structural reform in along time. If you think about the rest of the economy it is hugely different from say the 1970's.

If certain people are blocking reform of the service it is not only the responsibility of the government but the duty to move these people to one side.

We have seen with the virus how flat footed the government response has been. One of the issues has been who is in charge as responsibility is spread around the service.

The government is politically responsible but it is the job of the Civil Service to carry out the government's orders. If this needs a shakeup of the management structure that is not a bad thing.


Edited by Badger11 (29 Jun 2020 8.03am)

Ypu totally miss Maple's point, and you do not give any evidence that the civil service has not been carrying out the government's wishes, we could not get that lucky.

A management shake-up from Johnson? The PM of the second worst corona response in the world?

He couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery.

It's about power, power of the unelected to rule the country.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 29 Jun 20 9.29am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Ypu totally miss Maple's point, and you do not give any evidence that the civil service has not been carrying out the government's wishes, we could not get that lucky. 1.

A management shake-up from Johnson? The PM of the second worst corona response in the world?

He couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery.

It's about power, power of the unelected to rule the country. 2.

1. I didn't say that the service was not carrying out the governments orders I was complaining about the lack of speed and lack of accountability.

What Cummings is trying to do is to create small management teams with specific responsibilities. The government is about to launch a major infrastructure spend to kick start the economy something most of us would think is a good thing. However there is a huge gap between announcing funding and actually breaking ground e.g. Heathrow Expansion and HS2.

Whatever these projects are they need to be fast tracked so PR announcements become actual jobs. You don't need to tear down the Civil Service just re-organise the top management.

I don't have any evidence as you say but other countries seem to get things done quicker. I am not saying the civil service is obstructive but I am saying it lacks focus when you have projects that cut across multiple areas of government.

2. Sounds to me like you are describing the Civil Service.

 


One more point

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View m/k mick's Profile m/k mick Flag milton keynes 29 Jun 20 9.41am Send a Private Message to m/k mick Add m/k mick as a friend

The civil service is just a job for the boys, totally corrupt, very few of them would get jobs in the real world, dont like cummings, but we need guys like him, more than he needs us, same as the house of Lords, jobs for the same bunch of cronies

 

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