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Are we better than when we were promoted?

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View Canterbury Palace's Profile Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 05 Jul 20 10.55am Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

As we approach the end of our seventh year in the Premier League, are we actually any better than that first season in the division?

According to Google our wage bill in that first season was £46m which has increased by 63% to £72m this time, the eighth highest in the league and more than Leicester, Burnley, Wolves, Newcastle and Burnley. Our wage bill is more than double Wolves and over 5x more than Sheff Utd according to this table... [Link]

That season we finished 11th with 45 points, 33 goals scored, 48 goals conceded and a goal difference of -15.

This year, after 33 matches, we have 42 points, 28 goals scored, 40 conceded and a GD of -12.

With fixtures against Chelsea, Villa, United, Wolves and Spurs remaining we *might* beat that points total but I'd happily wager that our finishing position, goals scored, goals conceded and, as a result, goal difference will all be worse.

Player for player if you look at our squad that season then not many of them would get into our current side. We'd definitely take 2013/14 Bolasie and I think most would agree that getting rid of Murray and Gayle were errors, that's probably it though.

Our transfer model is extremely short-termist and basically seems to be paying as little as possible on transfer fees and recruiting 'experienced' players with the lure of high wages. This season, for example, we've brought in Cahill, McCarthy and Ayew for a combined £5/6m but they reportedly earn around £150,000 a week in wages combined (Cahil £75k, McCarthy £50k and Ayew £25k).

Though Cahill and Ayew in particular have been good signings, it's such a short term approach. They have an average age over 30 and would have minimal sell on value even despite Ayew's heroics.

As I said in the match thread yesterday, I'm certainly not saying I miss the days of Pardew and the seven goal thrillers that came with it but there has to be some sort of middle ground where we can show some sort of attacking intent in games whilst still staying relatively solid.

We always hear about our huge catchment area in terms of young fans and players but which youngsters will have watched our recent games and thought Palace are the club for them? Indeed, what is the point of a shiny new academy if the only time we will give our youngsters a chance is when the manager has no other option?

In my opinion we are at best standing still, if not slowly going backwards and, unless we make a huge effort to alter our philosophy this summer and inject some youth and ambition into our squad and playing style, I fear for us next year.

Here is the Wiki page for that first season up in case you want to have a look... [Link]

Edited by Canterbury Palace (05 Jul 2020 10.56am)

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 05 Jul 20 11.13am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

Interesting summary.
We were certainly a better balanced side with the promotion team.
Iím convinced a front three of Zaha, Murray and Bolassie would have flourished in the Premier League.
I know that wasnít possible because of Zahaís sale and Murrayís injury.
I think Jedi was a far superior captain and defensive holding player than Luka too.
With Jedi and KG screening it meant we could play an attacking midfield player (Garvan or Moritz) which we donít do any more.
The summary shows we have not really moved forward a great deal in some respects since the promotion.

 

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View rollercoaster's Profile rollercoaster Flag Cornwall 05 Jul 20 12.22pm Send a Private Message to rollercoaster Add rollercoaster as a friend

We're still there, still competing. I agree that the team that went up was a good one and that the current team need a major freshening up. There are no teams that consistently, year after year, achieve their potential.

We are a club with a championship infrastructure competing in the premier league. It will never be pretty until we put that right. I just wish the club would take a more long term view and invest in our future. I wish less of our fans were wanting and moaning for more short term spending.

 

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View Tom-the-eagle's Profile Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 05 Jul 20 1.01pm Send a Private Message to Tom-the-eagle Add Tom-the-eagle as a friend

I donít see much difference to be honest.

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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View Felbridge Eagle's Profile Felbridge Eagle Flag East Grinstead 05 Jul 20 1.12pm Send a Private Message to Felbridge Eagle Add Felbridge Eagle as a friend

I would like to see a central midfield set up that operated more like we did back then with two screening and one more advanced. Think we could do this with Reideweld playing alongside one of Mcarthur, Mcarthy, Luka, Kouyate in the two screening roles, with Reideweld utilising his passing ability from slightly deeper areas. Then play Meyer in the more advanced central role where he can play between the lines and link things together. I think in doing this it gives us better options across the pitch rather than just passing it to Wilf whether he is in space or marked by two players. I have liked what I have seen from Reideweld so far albeit he needs to get a bit fitter/ more minutes in his legs and the mixture of his passing ability with a decent work ethic to break things up make him a decent option.


Originally posted by PatrickA

Interesting summary.
We were certainly a better balanced side with the promotion team.
Iím convinced a front three of Zaha, Murray and Bolassie would have flourished in the Premier League.
I know that wasnít possible because of Zahaís sale and Murrayís injury.
I think Jedi was a far superior captain and defensive holding player than Luka too.
With Jedi and KG screening it meant we could play an attacking midfield player (Garvan or Moritz) which we donít do any more.
The summary shows we have not really moved forward a great deal in some respects since the promotion.

 

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View Canterbury Palace's Profile Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 05 Jul 20 1.21pm Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

Originally posted by rollercoaster

We're still there, still competing. I agree that the team that went up was a good one and that the current team need a major freshening up. There are no teams that consistently, year after year, achieve their potential.

We are a club with a championship infrastructure competing in the premier league. It will never be pretty until we put that right. I just wish the club would take a more long term view and invest in our future. I wish less of our fans were wanting and moaning for more short term spending.

Yep, undeniable. However, so are Bournemouth, Burnley and Sheffield United, the latter two of whom look set for a better season than we've ever managed on a fraction of the wage bill.

The first few seasons in the league you can understand a pragmatic approach, especially given that we started every season terribly and were desperately trying to play catch up. However, we've had Roy for a few seasons now and we still play like the underdog against every single side.

There's just no hint of a developing philosophy other than uber-negative and, although I haven't been impressed with Wilf at all this season, I don't particularly blame him for wanting to go to a more progressive side. We should be doing better considering the money we pay players.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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View CT Charlie's Profile CT Charlie Flag 05 Jul 20 5.16pm Send a Private Message to CT Charlie Add CT Charlie as a friend

Is the rest of the league better than 7 years ago? It's possible that as the Premiership has flourished, the overall quality has improved. Match-to-match and season-to-season success may have become more difficult, too. Perhaps we're better, but we've only kept pace.

 

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View rikz's Profile rikz Flag Croydon 05 Jul 20 7.53pm Send a Private Message to rikz Add rikz as a friend

much better than the team who came up, we must have been one of the worse teams to stay up in the league, pulis did work miracles. Had maybe 20% possession each game but it was exciting supporting huge underdogs each game. Now we have a group of players just good enough not to be relegated, our defence actually look comfortable with the ball. In sakhos case too comfortable and makes far too many stupid mistakes. We have an ageing squad and ageing manager. This group of players definitely aint good enough to favourably back for a top 10 finish next season.

Zaha will want a move, loads of work needs doing with this squad. Let Zaha go, new manager, back him with transfers and cross our fingers.

 

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View Nubes's Profile Nubes Flag London 05 Jul 20 8.59pm Send a Private Message to Nubes Add Nubes as a friend

I really donít understand the constant pessimistic view towards the upcoming season, regarding relegation.

We have been in the league for a number of seasons and what I think people want to actually happen is the club get relegated just for them to say ĎI told you soí

People actually wishing the Championship on us, no thanks, been there done that, appreciate that we are in the Prem and not scratching around playing teams that donít provide any real appetite to leave your home for.

Canít people see, Big Sam, hugely experienced, Pulis was hugely experienced, Roy Hugely experienced, not getting relegated!!!!

Yes the football can be brain numbing my boring, but look at our points in relation to Norwich, Bournemouth and villa and for all the Angst on here we are not worrying about relegation.

I just think a lot of people are not happy unless they are moaning and hoping we get relegated do they can points score.

We are a better team now - as the players we have now are established top level performers in comparison to the players who came up from the championship!

 

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View hedgie's Profile hedgie Flag Flitwick 05 Jul 20 8.59pm Send a Private Message to hedgie Add hedgie as a friend

Not much better, but we are better, particularly defensively. I don't think you can really look much beyond one season ahead as a mid to lower Premier League team, you are always one bad season away from the Championship. No problem with most of the older players we have signed, you need experience in this league and I think that is what has seen us through this season.

When you look at our disappointing signings in recent seasons those have been Sakho, Benteke and Meyer, certainly not Cahill and Ayew. McCarthy more of a doubt but I think he might still come good, as he's still not 30 and was highly rated by Everton fans before he had a long spell out with injury.

I do think we need to work on getting more younger players in but most higher quality youngsters will only see us as a stepping stone, so there's never a guarantee that a youngster will be with the club for any more time than an older one.

For as long as we are surviving every season our current strategy is fine, our resources are not enough to expect anything more.

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 05 Jul 20 10.08pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Canterbury Palace

As we approach the end of our seventh year in the Premier League, are we actually any better than that first season in the division?

According to Google our wage bill in that first season was £46m which has increased by 63% to £72m this time, the eighth highest in the league and more than Leicester, Burnley, Wolves, Newcastle and Burnley. Our wage bill is more than double Wolves and over 5x more than Sheff Utd according to this table... [Link]

That season we finished 11th with 45 points, 33 goals scored, 48 goals conceded and a goal difference of -15.

This year, after 33 matches, we have 42 points, 28 goals scored, 40 conceded and a GD of -12.

With fixtures against Chelsea, Villa, United, Wolves and Spurs remaining we *might* beat that points total but I'd happily wager that our finishing position, goals scored, goals conceded and, as a result, goal difference will all be worse.

Player for player if you look at our squad that season then not many of them would get into our current side. We'd definitely take 2013/14 Bolasie and I think most would agree that getting rid of Murray and Gayle were errors, that's probably it though.

Our transfer model is extremely short-termist and basically seems to be paying as little as possible on transfer fees and recruiting 'experienced' players with the lure of high wages. This season, for example, we've brought in Cahill, McCarthy and Ayew for a combined £5/6m but they reportedly earn around £150,000 a week in wages combined (Cahil £75k, McCarthy £50k and Ayew £25k).

Though Cahill and Ayew in particular have been good signings, it's such a short term approach. They have an average age over 30 and would have minimal sell on value even despite Ayew's heroics.

As I said in the match thread yesterday, I'm certainly not saying I miss the days of Pardew and the seven goal thrillers that came with it but there has to be some sort of middle ground where we can show some sort of attacking intent in games whilst still staying relatively solid.

We always hear about our huge catchment area in terms of young fans and players but which youngsters will have watched our recent games and thought Palace are the club for them? Indeed, what is the point of a shiny new academy if the only time we will give our youngsters a chance is when the manager has no other option?

In my opinion we are at best standing still, if not slowly going backwards and, unless we make a huge effort to alter our philosophy this summer and inject some youth and ambition into our squad and playing style, I fear for us next year.

Here is the Wiki page for that first season up in case you want to have a look... [Link]

Edited by Canterbury Palace (05 Jul 2020 10.56am)

I think we are much better than when we were promoted.

But each season will be much the same as the last - the race to the required number of points to stay up. Without a mega cash injection that's the reality.

Questioning the Academy investment in the way you have suggests that you have totally missed the rationale behind it. Think about it - it's a project for the long term and Hodgson will be but a memory by the time that bears fruit. So you won't be able to blame him if the youngsters don't get a chance !

I do agree that the club is being run on a short term basis. Hopefully the investment in the Academy is a sign that things are changing - they need to.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Canterbury Palace's Profile Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 06 Jul 20 12.44am Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I think we are much better than when we were promoted.

But each season will be much the same as the last - the race to the required number of points to stay up. Without a mega cash injection that's the reality.

Questioning the Academy investment in the way you have suggests that you have totally missed the rationale behind it. Think about it - it's a project for the long term and Hodgson will be but a memory by the time that bears fruit. So you won't be able to blame him if the youngsters don't get a chance !

I do agree that the club is being run on a short term basis. Hopefully the investment in the Academy is a sign that things are changing - they need to.


In what sense would you say we are though? I think our playing style is the worst its been since we came up and I can't really see any metric where we have greatly progressed.

In terms of the cash injection, as I mentioned we are comfortably outspending clubs who are significantly outperforming us when it comes to wages so it's not like we're not investing anything, I just don't think we're investing it particularly well.

That's a fair point about the academy, I hadn't considered it like that. I suppose we will see our true intent with the post-Roy appointment, whether it is someone youth orientated or not.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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