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Blame FIFA, not VAR

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View eritheagle's Profile eritheagle Flag Erith 30 Sep 20 11.53am Send a Private Message to eritheagle Add eritheagle as a friend

Originally posted by The Dolphin

I have to say that unless they change this farce then I am not sure I will go back.
It is not a knee jerk reaction but given that we are not there currently and I dislike what I am seeing on TV I am just not sure I want to pay a fortune just to be disappointed further.

Totally agree with you! Out of all the goals we scored at home last season I think I only celebrated the penalty from Luka, PVAís free kick and Ayewís v West Ham with any confidence that they wouldnít be chalked off.
I remember one time when our player had the ball blasted at him and it may have touched his arm whilst we were attacking. I was willing us to not To bother scoring and to try and win a corner instead as I knew VAR would disallow any goal!

 

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View steven_t92's Profile steven_t92 Flag Orpington 30 Sep 20 12.08pm Send a Private Message to steven_t92 Add steven_t92 as a friend

Nothing wrong with VAR apart from when it has to follow stupid laws to give so many decisions that appear dodgy to everyone. The laws of the game are dodgy, the guy in charge of the VAR for each game is left to the wolves when he gets the blame for putting into action what FIFA tell him lol

 

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View eritheagle's Profile eritheagle Flag Erith 30 Sep 20 12.31pm Send a Private Message to eritheagle Add eritheagle as a friend

Originally posted by steven_t92

Nothing wrong with VAR apart from when it has to follow stupid laws to give so many decisions that appear dodgy to everyone. The laws of the game are dodgy, the guy in charge of the VAR for each game is left to the wolves when he gets the blame for putting into action what FIFA tell him lol

Thatís why I donít think refs are giving some decisions until they are recommended to go look at the monitors. It then deflects the attention from them as they probably donít agree with the rule changes anyway.

 

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View roman eagle's Profile roman eagle Flag South London 30 Sep 20 5.02pm Send a Private Message to roman eagle Add roman eagle as a friend

On a point of information, it is the International Football Association Board (IFAB) that is the law-making body, not FIFA. IFAB (1886) predates FIFA (1904), although FIFA has representation on IFAB.

IFAB has 8 members, four from FIFA and one each from the Football Association of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. For any motion to be passed there has to be a three-quarters majority ie 6 out of 8, so effectively the UK football associations have a veto on any motion, as does FIFA.

Regarding the current controversy, the problem arises from the desire to have a definition of 'deliberate' so there is consistency across the world. Previously referees were the judge of whether handball was deliberate or not.

But unfortunately this raises other issues, primarily what is an 'un-natural' position for a hand/arm. Hence we get situations like the Ward handball, and the week before the Lindelof handball. Under the previous guidance neither of these would have been given. So effectively there is a much lower bar for a handball offence now, and the FA did warn that there would be more penalties as a result this season.

Nothing is going to change until IFAB meets next spring but in the meantime Roy is correct in saying that managers, coaches, players and the like should make their voices heard in opposition to the way the guidance on the law has changed.

 


Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC)

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View uncleneal's Profile uncleneal Flag Croydon 01 Oct 20 7.51am Send a Private Message to uncleneal Add uncleneal as a friend

Originally posted by roman eagle

On a point of information, it is the International Football Association Board (IFAB) that is the law-making body, not FIFA. IFAB (1886) predates FIFA (1904), although FIFA has representation on IFAB.

IFAB has 8 members, four from FIFA and one each from the Football Association of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. For any motion to be passed there has to be a three-quarters majority ie 6 out of 8, so effectively the UK football associations have a veto on any motion, as does FIFA.

Regarding the current controversy, the problem arises from the desire to have a definition of 'deliberate' so there is consistency across the world. Previously referees were the judge of whether handball was deliberate or not.

But unfortunately this raises other issues, primarily what is an 'un-natural' position for a hand/arm. Hence we get situations like the Ward handball, and the week before the Lindelof handball. Under the previous guidance neither of these would have been given. So effectively there is a much lower bar for a handball offence now, and the FA did warn that there would be more penalties as a result this season.

Nothing is going to change until IFAB meets next spring but in the meantime Roy is correct in saying that managers, coaches, players and the like should make their voices heard in opposition to the way the guidance on the law has changed.


Interesting - wonder who represented the U.K. nations. Very odd that they have meddled as the result was obvious. VAR is simply the closed circuit TV - people disputing the closeness of the calls in understandable but what would they do? Surely it is easier to stick with fact, off or not?

The handball is not about being seen but the interpretation that it is handball. The Man U decision was harsh, the Joel Ward one is simply wrong and the Spurs one is downright pathetic.

The Brighton one is correct and that is a clear benefit of having VAR.

Would be good if the refs told us how they came to the decision I.e. does Friend think that Wardís hand is in an unnatural position? Maybe that would cause more debate but the authorities could than see how the refs are thinking.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 01 Oct 20 8.24am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by roman eagle

On a point of information, it is the International Football Association Board (IFAB) that is the law-making body, not FIFA. IFAB (1886) predates FIFA (1904), although FIFA has representation on IFAB.

IFAB has 8 members, four from FIFA and one each from the Football Association of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. For any motion to be passed there has to be a three-quarters majority ie 6 out of 8, so effectively the UK football associations have a veto on any motion, as does FIFA.

Regarding the current controversy, the problem arises from the desire to have a definition of 'deliberate' so there is consistency across the world. Previously referees were the judge of whether handball was deliberate or not.

But unfortunately this raises other issues, primarily what is an 'un-natural' position for a hand/arm. Hence we get situations like the Ward handball, and the week before the Lindelof handball. Under the previous guidance neither of these would have been given. So effectively there is a much lower bar for a handball offence now, and the FA did warn that there would be more penalties as a result this season.

Nothing is going to change until IFAB meets next spring but in the meantime Roy is correct in saying that managers, coaches, players and the like should make their voices heard in opposition to the way the guidance on the law has changed.

A ridiculous committee, Northern Ireland a giant in world football has a big say in technology it can't afford to implement whilst those pesky minnows Germany and Brazil don't.

This is a hangover from when we invented the game and needs to be reformed. The obvious solution is to have a committee made up of the 6 federations.

Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland having a vote on this committee is why they are against a GB team for women or under 23's. They believe that a GB team at any level will eventually mean they lose their vote, FIFA should put them out of their misery and reform the committee and throw all of the home nations off it.

I suspect if this happened their objections to a GB team will disappear.

 


One more point

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View roman eagle's Profile roman eagle Flag South London 01 Oct 20 9.40am Send a Private Message to roman eagle Add roman eagle as a friend

You can read up on the membership of IFAB here [Link]
The main committee is advised by two panels - the Football Advisory Panel and the Technical Advisory Panel. These comprise various members including former professionals - Luis Figo and Boban for example, representatives of the federations, coaches and former top referees including Collina and Elleray.

Despite all of this accumulated wisdom theyíve managed to make a mess of the handball law. Again I go back to Roy - if the player does it deliberately itís a penalty, if it hits his hand itís not. The most ridiculous penalty given this season was the Dier penalty - he actually had his back to the ball so had no idea where the ball was - surely this canít be what IFAB intended. This makes a mockery of the law and is not a good advert for the game because fairness is a basic principle of football and that is blatantly unfair.

 


Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC)

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View roman eagle's Profile roman eagle Flag South London 01 Oct 20 10.06am Send a Private Message to roman eagle Add roman eagle as a friend

Just read this on the Beeb [Link]
so the Premier League want to lobby IFAB - well they donít have to go very far as weíve got our own man on the board of directors, His name is Mark Bullingham and heís the CEO of the FA [Link]
Letís see if Mark can fix it.

 


Audentis fortuna iuvat (Virgil, 19BC)

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View crystal-purley's Profile crystal-purley Flag Purley 01 Oct 20 1.13pm Send a Private Message to crystal-purley Add crystal-purley as a friend

Originally posted by roman eagle

You can read up on the membership of IFAB here [Link]
The main committee is advised by two panels - the Football Advisory Panel and the Technical Advisory Panel. These comprise various members including former professionals - Luis Figo and Boban for example, representatives of the federations, coaches and former top referees including Collina and Elleray.

Despite all of this accumulated wisdom theyíve managed to make a mess of the handball law. Again I go back to Roy - if the player does it deliberately itís a penalty, if it hits his hand itís not. The most ridiculous penalty given this season was the Dier penalty - he actually had his back to the ball so had no idea where the ball was - surely this canít be what IFAB intended. This makes a mockery of the law and is not a good advert for the game because fairness is a basic principle of football and that is blatantly unfair.

part of the rule used to be that if the ball ended up favourably to the handler then it was a foul on the other hand (no pun) if it didn't then play on. Rehashing this might have stopped the Lindelof, Ward and Dier fiascos which might cause cuts in money at the end of the season.

 


The thing about capitalists is that they eventually run out of cheaper labour and stuff to sell.

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View CrazyBadger's Profile CrazyBadger Flag Ware 01 Oct 20 1.50pm Send a Private Message to CrazyBadger Add CrazyBadger as a friend

Originally posted by roman eagle

You can read up on the membership of IFAB here [Link]
The main committee is advised by two panels - the Football Advisory Panel and the Technical Advisory Panel. These comprise various members including former professionals - Luis Figo and Boban for example, representatives of the federations, coaches and former top referees including Collina and Elleray.

Despite all of this accumulated wisdom theyíve managed to make a mess of the handball law. Again I go back to Roy - if the player does it deliberately itís a penalty, if it hits his hand itís not. The most ridiculous penalty given this season was the Dier penalty - he actually had his back to the ball so had no idea where the ball was - surely this canít be what IFAB intended. This makes a mockery of the law and is not a good advert for the game because fairness is a basic principle of football and that is blatantly unfair.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this.

Of The 4 handball decisions; Lindlehoff, Maupay Ward and Dier. I would say Diers one the only one where it could have actually been a penalty. Having your back to the ball is not a defence. Just because you cannot see the ball, does not stop you from intentionally putting your body in a position where handling the ball is likely. Same with this notion that the proximity should be taken into account. No! If I were to run at you arms streched, like a goalkeeper, and if you kicked it when I was 'only' one metre away, then that's handball.
There is an argument when looking at Diers jump that he intentionally made his body bigger by using his arms in an attempt to stop the ball getting past him. This is regardless of where he was looking or facing at the time.
This is the issue - judging intent. personally I think that Diers was unintentional, but there is definitely a case for unnatural arm position, and definitely a case for arm-to-ball movement.

 

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View samprior's Profile samprior Flag Hamburg 01 Oct 20 6.39pm Send a Private Message to samprior Add samprior as a friend

It's clearly ruffled some important feathers as interpretation is to be changed for the next set of matches. Thank goodness. You'll obviously not eradicate all dodgy pens but this will hopefully reduce the amount of nonsense decisions that we've been seeing... just a shame it wasn't in place last week.

[Link]

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 01 Oct 20 10.29pm Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this.

Of The 4 handball decisions; Lindlehoff, Maupay Ward and Dier. I would say Diers one the only one where it could have actually been a penalty. Having your back to the ball is not a defence. Just because you cannot see the ball, does not stop you from intentionally putting your body in a position where handling the ball is likely. Same with this notion that the proximity should be taken into account. No! If I were to run at you arms streched, like a goalkeeper, and if you kicked it when I was 'only' one metre away, then that's handball.
There is an argument when looking at Diers jump that he intentionally made his body bigger by using his arms in an attempt to stop the ball getting past him. This is regardless of where he was looking or facing at the time.
This is the issue - judging intent. personally I think that Diers was unintentional, but there is definitely a case for unnatural arm position, and definitely a case for arm-to-ball movement.

Thank feck you are not a referee. Youíre not are you?

 

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