Let’s celebrate the left
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 steeleye20  Croydon 30 Mar 23 9.42pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
The issue for me is not what Corbyn stood for. I find little to disagree with what you are saying. What I loathe is how the man was effectively bought down by an inner sanctum of our wider political establishment. In 2017 he genuinely scared them. Polled 40% of the vote. I could bore you with all kinds of leaked messages from people within Labour who were distraught when this happened but won't Corbyn offered the people of this country a genuine alternative to the mainstream. Do I delight in that vision being rejected? Yes. Do I take any pleasure in Corbyn being effectively cast out of our political system for doing so? Then no. The same behind the scenes actors who foisted Sunak on us are the same people who are lined up behind Starmer. The issue for me not wanting either of them in number 10. And yet what choice do we have? None. Edited by Matov (30 Mar 2023 6.03pm) Seconded M, what choice is there actually. Interesting that Labour memberships have actually dropped under Starmer but rose continually under Corbyn. JC will probably run as independent again and be successful in Islington North, where he has been their MP for forty years. No doubt their constituents, like Jeremy, would prefer him to be elected as a Labour MP. The market for re-distribution. solidarity and hope, offered by the left, which should be a part of the labour party, is being sacrificed by Starmer.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 30 Mar 23 10.10pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Seconded M, what choice is there actually. Interesting that Labour memberships have actually dropped under Starmer but rose continually under Corbyn. JC will probably run as independent again and be successful in Islington North, where he has been their MP for forty years. No doubt their constituents, like Jeremy, would prefer him to be elected as a Labour MP. The market for re-distribution. solidarity and hope, offered by the left, which should be a part of the labour party, is being sacrificed by Starmer. You are a dreamer Steely. The system will never change because those that run it make the rules. Corbyn sold his soul for votes in the last election, but everybody knows that he actually hates the EU and the globalist cabal that runs the world, and they know it too. He is toast.
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PalazioVecchio  south pole 30 Mar 23 10.45pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are a dreamer Steely. The system will never change because those that run it make the rules. Corbyn sold his soul for votes in the last election, but everybody knows that he actually hates the EU and the globalist cabal that runs the world, and they know it too. He is toast. the Media ( & money markets) now anoint our leaders. And also break the leaders they disapprove of .
Eze Peasy at Anfield.... |
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| Spiderman Horsham 31 Mar 23 8.26am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Do you not think the bigger picture is that he is correct. The UK retirement age sits at 66 now and 67 from 2028 and no change until after 2040, for now! Yes I think he is correct
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| Midlands Eagle 31 Mar 23 9.40am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
With respect the guys a t*** who would have taken us down a very dark road; not that we arnt at the gates of that now. A pure mao lover who would have taken everything you have or are likely to have and given it to oxygen thieves milking the system who are from here and abroad. Look to France for left wing institutions holding the country to ransom for what I see as a sensible decision from macron. The protests about the raising of the pension age in France seem to be mainly students who won't be reaching pension age for another 40 years anyway. Similarly main of the Corbyn vocal activists seem to be students too
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| Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 31 Mar 23 9.51am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
The protests about the raising of the pension age in France seem to be mainly students who won't be reaching pension age for another 40 years anyway. Similarly main of the Corbyn vocal activists seem to be students too I didn't have a problem with Corbyn as in my view he was trying to get the Labour party back to its original principles, thereby giving the electorate a defined choice, rather than the different shades of the same colour which permeate the main parties. He became a voice for true socialism and also a conduit for the 'anybody but the present lot' voter. Not my cup of tea, but I admire the man for trying to bring back a true socialist alternative. Unfortunately his stance on various unsavoury issues has probably alienated him from the majority of voters.
hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing. |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 31 Mar 23 1.25pm |
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If Starmer has a problem, it is that he does not really have the heart of the labour movement imo. He reasons that he has to get elected, but other successful leaders like Wilson and Blair who won several elections, both accommodated the left. The labour party has to be a broad church, tolerant of others opinions. He is looking authoritarian his shadow cabinet look uninspiring, maybe its because they do not feel able to speak.
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| georgenorman 31 Mar 23 2.35pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
If Starmer has a problem, it is that he does not really have the heart of the labour movement imo. He reasons that he has to get elected, but other successful leaders like Wilson and Blair who won several elections, both accommodated the left. The labour party has to be a broad church, tolerant of others opinions. He is looking authoritarian his shadow cabinet look uninspiring, maybe its because they do not feel able to speak. This has always been Labour's problem. They have to try to convince the electorate that they would not actually implement the policies that most of their party members would want.
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| footythoughts Beckenham 31 Mar 23 3.00pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
The protests about the raising of the pension age in France seem to be mainly students who won't be reaching pension age for another 40 years anyway. Similarly main of the Corbyn vocal activists seem to be students too Rationally speaking, as others have said, the pension age needs to go up in France due to their ageing population - and likely also money mismanagement and short term thinking by various governments over time. The French have always been more eager to protest than we have, and while that's sometimes unjustifiable, our attitude of always seeing protest as completely pointless doesn't exactly gleam us amazing results either as a nation. I would say that a lot of the angst there in younger people is as much a generalised lack of hope for the future. Ideas of there being any state pension at all in 40 years time will often be greeted with a laugh by the young, so I doubt they see the dial turned a little this way or that as anything that will genuinely help them down the line.
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| JRW2 Dulwich 31 Mar 23 3.46pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
If Starmer has a problem, it is that he does not really have the heart of the labour movement imo. He reasons that he has to get elected, but other successful leaders like Wilson and Blair who won several elections, both accommodated the left. The labour party has to be a broad church, tolerant of others opinions. He is looking authoritarian his shadow cabinet look uninspiring, maybe its because they do not feel able to speak. Blair didn't show much accommodation of the left in 1995, when he pushed through a radical change in Clause 1V of Labour's constitution, effectively removing wholesale nationalisation from the party's stated aims. The left were aghast, as is was symbolic of a shift to the centre, and it led to the creation of New Labour, and (I think) to the party's longest uninterrupted period in office.
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| georgenorman 31 Mar 23 3.53pm |
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Originally posted by JRW2
Blair didn't show much accommodation of the left in 1995, when he pushed through a radical change in Clause 1V of Labour's constitution, effectively removing wholesale nationalisation from the party's stated aims. The left were aghast, as is was symbolic of a shift to the centre, and it led to the creation of New Labour, and (I think) to the party's longest uninterrupted period in office. The Party would never get elected if it proposed wholesale nationalisation (which is in essence communist economics) despite many of its members wanting exactly that.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 31 Mar 23 6.10pm |
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Common ownership of energy water and rail is an absolute must. Why do the tories see privatisations, in the face of all their failures, as their preference? Privatisation is the God that failed. Rotten services, sky-high prices, zero investment, absent foreign owners, naked profiteering, highest taxes and borrowing since WW2 to keep them in clover. The taxpayer ultimately picks up the tab for all their failures, not them.
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