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October 3 2023 12.36am

Letís celebrate the left

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Mar 23 9.42pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

The issue for me is not what Corbyn stood for. I find little to disagree with what you are saying. What I loathe is how the man was effectively bought down by an inner sanctum of our wider political establishment.

In 2017 he genuinely scared them. Polled 40% of the vote. I could bore you with all kinds of leaked messages from people within Labour who were distraught when this happened but won't

Corbyn offered the people of this country a genuine alternative to the mainstream. Do I delight in that vision being rejected? Yes. Do I take any pleasure in Corbyn being effectively cast out of our political system for doing so? Then no.

The same behind the scenes actors who foisted Sunak on us are the same people who are lined up behind Starmer. The issue for me not wanting either of them in number 10.

And yet what choice do we have? None.

Edited by Matov (30 Mar 2023 6.03pm)

Seconded M, what choice is there actually.

Interesting that Labour memberships have actually dropped under Starmer but rose continually under Corbyn.

JC will probably run as independent again and be successful in Islington North, where he has been their MP for forty years.

No doubt their constituents, like Jeremy, would prefer him to be elected as a Labour MP.

The market for re-distribution. solidarity and hope, offered by the left, which should be a part of the labour party, is being sacrificed by Starmer.


 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 30 Mar 23 10.10pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Seconded M, what choice is there actually.

Interesting that Labour memberships have actually dropped under Starmer but rose continually under Corbyn.

JC will probably run as independent again and be successful in Islington North, where he has been their MP for forty years.

No doubt their constituents, like Jeremy, would prefer him to be elected as a Labour MP.

The market for re-distribution. solidarity and hope, offered by the left, which should be a part of the labour party, is being sacrificed by Starmer.


You are a dreamer Steely.

The system will never change because those that run it make the rules.
Look at how quickly Truss was ousted because she wasn't 'of the body'.
The same with Trump and Johnson with a longer game.

Corbyn sold his soul for votes in the last election, but everybody knows that he actually hates the EU and the globalist cabal that runs the world, and they know it too.

He is toast.

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 30 Mar 23 10.45pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You are a dreamer Steely.

The system will never change because those that run it make the rules.
Look at how quickly Truss was ousted because she wasn't 'of the body'.
The same with Trump and Johnson with a longer game.

Corbyn sold his soul for votes in the last election, but everybody knows that he actually hates the EU and the globalist cabal that runs the world, and they know it too.

He is toast.

the Media ( & money markets) now anoint our leaders. And also break the leaders they disapprove of .

 


inŠr n-aonar i Anerley,

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 31 Mar 23 8.26am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Do you not think the bigger picture is that he is correct. The UK retirement age sits at 66 now and 67 from 2028 and no change until after 2040, for now!
France has a similar aged population and they will be net takers within 15 years of retirement in many cases. The country cannot support the math. No one would have accepted the change voluntarily so he has forced it through. All the youngsters giving it large over there will be the affected in both ways but money talks tbh.
All EU countries need to update their system as the money will run out and lenders will be a little apprehensive going forwards. I dislike macron and many of his principles but on this he is correct. Strangely with all the bull we give our hmg they have a system which works to ensure the bank account. Back in the day we died at 70 and it wasnít an issue but now the world has created a self fulfilling prophecy by trying to force us to live longer with all the health crap being forced on us.

Yes I think he is correct

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 31 Mar 23 9.40am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

With respect the guys a t*** who would have taken us down a very dark road; not that we arnt at the gates of that now. A pure mao lover who would have taken everything you have or are likely to have and given it to oxygen thieves milking the system who are from here and abroad. Look to France for left wing institutions holding the country to ransom for what I see as a sensible decision from macron.

The protests about the raising of the pension age in France seem to be mainly students who won't be reaching pension age for another 40 years anyway. Similarly main of the Corbyn vocal activists seem to be students too

 

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View Behind Enemy Lines's Profile Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 31 Mar 23 9.51am Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

The protests about the raising of the pension age in France seem to be mainly students who won't be reaching pension age for another 40 years anyway. Similarly main of the Corbyn vocal activists seem to be students too

I didn't have a problem with Corbyn as in my view he was trying to get the Labour party back to its original principles, thereby giving the electorate a defined choice, rather than the different shades of the same colour which permeate the main parties. He became a voice for true socialism and also a conduit for the 'anybody but the present lot' voter.

Not my cup of tea, but I admire the man for trying to bring back a true socialist alternative. Unfortunately his stance on various unsavoury issues has probably alienated him from the majority of voters.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 31 Mar 23 1.25pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

If Starmer has a problem, it is that he does not really have the heart of the labour movement imo.

He reasons that he has to get elected, but other successful leaders like Wilson and Blair who won several elections, both accommodated the left.

The labour party has to be a broad church, tolerant of others opinions.

He is looking authoritarian his shadow cabinet look uninspiring, maybe its because they do not feel able to speak.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 31 Mar 23 2.35pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

If Starmer has a problem, it is that he does not really have the heart of the labour movement imo.

He reasons that he has to get elected, but other successful leaders like Wilson and Blair who won several elections, both accommodated the left.

The labour party has to be a broad church, tolerant of others opinions.

He is looking authoritarian his shadow cabinet look uninspiring, maybe its because they do not feel able to speak.

This has always been Labour's problem. They have to try to convince the electorate that they would not actually implement the policies that most of their party members would want.

 

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footythoughts Flag Beckenham 31 Mar 23 3.00pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

The protests about the raising of the pension age in France seem to be mainly students who won't be reaching pension age for another 40 years anyway. Similarly main of the Corbyn vocal activists seem to be students too

Rationally speaking, as others have said, the pension age needs to go up in France due to their ageing population - and likely also money mismanagement and short term thinking by various governments over time.

The French have always been more eager to protest than we have, and while that's sometimes unjustifiable, our attitude of always seeing protest as completely pointless doesn't exactly gleam us amazing results either as a nation.

I would say that a lot of the angst there in younger people is as much a generalised lack of hope for the future. Ideas of there being any state pension at all in 40 years time will often be greeted with a laugh by the young, so I doubt they see the dial turned a little this way or that as anything that will genuinely help them down the line.

 

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View JRW2's Profile JRW2 Flag Dulwich 31 Mar 23 3.46pm Send a Private Message to JRW2 Add JRW2 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

If Starmer has a problem, it is that he does not really have the heart of the labour movement imo.

He reasons that he has to get elected, but other successful leaders like Wilson and Blair who won several elections, both accommodated the left.

The labour party has to be a broad church, tolerant of others opinions.

He is looking authoritarian his shadow cabinet look uninspiring, maybe its because they do not feel able to speak.

Blair didn't show much accommodation of the left in 1995, when he pushed through a radical change in Clause 1V of Labour's constitution, effectively removing wholesale nationalisation from the party's stated aims. The left were aghast, as is was symbolic of a shift to the centre, and it led to the creation of New Labour, and (I think) to the party's longest uninterrupted period in office.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 31 Mar 23 3.53pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by JRW2

Blair didn't show much accommodation of the left in 1995, when he pushed through a radical change in Clause 1V of Labour's constitution, effectively removing wholesale nationalisation from the party's stated aims. The left were aghast, as is was symbolic of a shift to the centre, and it led to the creation of New Labour, and (I think) to the party's longest uninterrupted period in office.

The Party would never get elected if it proposed wholesale nationalisation (which is in essence communist economics) despite many of its members wanting exactly that.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 31 Mar 23 6.10pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Common ownership of energy water and rail is an absolute must.

Why do the tories see privatisations, in the face of all their failures, as their preference?

Privatisation is the God that failed.

Rotten services, sky-high prices, zero investment, absent foreign owners, naked profiteering, highest taxes and borrowing since WW2 to keep them in clover.

The taxpayer ultimately picks up the tab for all their failures, not them.

 

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