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georgenorman 23 Jun 22 8.23am
Originally posted by Matov Well, it took what was a barely post-feudal society and put the first rocket and then man into Space in under 50 years. It put drinking water into every village. It spread all kinds of arts and culture to those self-same villagers and did in part foster a genuine sense of Brotherhood amongst people from across a huge variety of backgrounds. And saw to it that a lot of people learnt to read and write. Yes, it was not pleasant at times, and millions died but it also defeated Nazi Germany, at a huge cost to itself. And when it did fall apart, it actually was, given the sheer scale of what the USSR was, prove remarkably bloodless. I proudly proclaim myself as 'Anti' Communist because of all kinds of inherent flaws I believe exist in Marxist dogma but lets not pretend that they got everything wrong. Other countries such as the US and Australia developed from nothing just as quickly. They too killed indigenous people but not on the industrial scale of the communists. Drinking water in every village! Was that to help them digest the eating of their own children during the famines ceated by the comrades? Huge sense of brotherhood! Is that why, once the shackles were off, all the regions wanted to revert to their own independant stauts. Learnt to read and write - what to read Marxist claptrap? 'Not pleasant'!!! The understatement of the last hundred years. Russia survived the Nazi invasion despite Stalin having decimated the miltary in his parnoid purges. The Russian people managed to defeat the inavsion despite their corrupt, incompetent and evil government. Your statement: 'given the sheer scale of what the USSR was, prove remarkably bloodless' is shameful - you consider the murder of tens of millions of people 'remarkably bloodless'. They put a man into space - hurrah! It was all worth while then. Edited by georgenorman (23 Jun 2022 8.24am)
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georgenorman

23 Jun 22 8.23am

Originally posted by Matov

Well, it took what was a barely post-feudal society and put the first rocket and then man into Space in under 50 years. It put drinking water into every village. It spread all kinds of arts and culture to those self-same villagers and did in part foster a genuine sense of Brotherhood amongst people from across a huge variety of backgrounds. And saw to it that a lot of people learnt to read and write.

Yes, it was not pleasant at times, and millions died but it also defeated Nazi Germany, at a huge cost to itself. And when it did fall apart, it actually was, given the sheer scale of what the USSR was, prove remarkably bloodless.

I proudly proclaim myself as 'Anti' Communist because of all kinds of inherent flaws I believe exist in Marxist dogma but lets not pretend that they got everything wrong.

Other countries such as the US and Australia developed from nothing just as quickly. They too killed indigenous people but not on the industrial scale of the communists. Drinking water in every village! Was that to help them digest the eating of their own children during the famines ceated by the comrades? Huge sense of brotherhood! Is that why, once the shackles were off, all the regions wanted to revert to their own independant stauts. Learnt to read and write - what to read Marxist claptrap? 'Not pleasant'!!! The understatement of the last hundred years. Russia survived the Nazi invasion despite Stalin having decimated the miltary in his parnoid purges. The Russian people managed to defeat the inavsion despite their corrupt, incompetent and evil government.
Your statement: 'given the sheer scale of what the USSR was, prove remarkably bloodless' is shameful - you consider the murder of tens of millions of people 'remarkably bloodless'.
They put a man into space - hurrah! It was all worth while then.

Edited by georgenorman (23 Jun 2022 8.24am)

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Matov 23 Jun 22 9.34am
Originally posted by georgenorman Other countries such as the US and Australia developed from nothing just as quickly. They too killed indigenous people but not on the industrial scale of the communists. Drinking water in every village! Was that to help them digest the eating of their own children during the famines ceated by the comrades? Huge sense of brotherhood! Is that why, once the shackles were off, all the regions wanted to revert to their own independant stauts. Learnt to read and write - what to read Marxist claptrap? 'Not pleasant'!!! The understatement of the last hundred years. Russia survived the Nazi invasion despite Stalin having decimated the miltary in his parnoid purges. The Russian people managed to defeat the inavsion despite their corrupt, incompetent and evil government. Your statement: 'given the sheer scale of what the USSR was, prove remarkably bloodless' is shameful - you consider the murder of tens of millions of people 'remarkably bloodless'. They put a man into space - hurrah! It was all worth while then. Edited by georgenorman (23 Jun 2022 8.24am) This alone makes it a cheap price to have been paid.... [Link] "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jun 22 9.34am

Originally posted by georgenorman

Edited by georgenorman (23 Jun 2022 8.24am)

This alone makes it a cheap price to have been paid....

[Link]

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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georgenorman 23 Jun 22 10.09am
Originally posted by Matov This alone makes it a cheap price to have been paid.... [Link] Where are you actually from? Do you live in the UK?
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georgenorman

23 Jun 22 10.09am

Originally posted by Matov

This alone makes it a cheap price to have been paid....

[Link]

Where are you actually from? Do you live in the UK?

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Matov 23 Jun 22 10.19am
Originally posted by georgenorman Where are you actually from? Do you live in the UK? London born & bred. But hoping to die with warm bones, on a foreign shore. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jun 22 10.19am

Originally posted by georgenorman

Where are you actually from? Do you live in the UK?

London born & bred. But hoping to die with warm bones, on a foreign shore.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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georgenorman 23 Jun 22 11.01am
Originally posted by Matov London born & bred. But hoping to die with warm bones, on a foreign shore. Don't let us keep you.
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georgenorman

23 Jun 22 11.01am

Originally posted by Matov

London born & bred. But hoping to die with warm bones, on a foreign shore.

Don't let us keep you.

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Matov 23 Jun 22 11.22am
Originally posted by georgenorman Don't let us keep you. Thank you. The plan is to eventually bugger off for at least 9 months of the year. Probably be back for Christmas (because to be fair, London does that pretty well) but gone again before New Years Eve (an event we do pretty badly). And the odd long weekend for some shenanigans. But outside of that? Nah. You can keep it. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jun 22 11.22am

Originally posted by georgenorman

Don't let us keep you.

Thank you.

The plan is to eventually bugger off for at least 9 months of the year. Probably be back for Christmas (because to be fair, London does that pretty well) but gone again before New Years Eve (an event we do pretty badly).

And the odd long weekend for some shenanigans.

But outside of that? Nah. You can keep it.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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BlueJay UK 23 Jun 22 12.57pm
Originally posted by Matov Thank you. The plan is to eventually bugger off for at least 9 months of the year. Probably be back for Christmas (because to be fair, London does that pretty well) but gone again before New Years Eve (an event we do pretty badly). And the odd long weekend for some shenanigans. But outside of that? Nah. You can keep it. But doesn't love of country involves staying - not becoming what you may dislike in others... someone just going where they fancy? A country doesn't have to be perfect to have love for it, few are. What's so utterly terrible about it that you have detached yourself from your country in such a profound way?
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BlueJay

UK 23 Jun 22 12.57pm

Originally posted by Matov

Thank you.

And the odd long weekend for some shenanigans.

But outside of that? Nah. You can keep it.

But doesn't love of country involves staying - not becoming what you may dislike in others... someone just going where they fancy? A country doesn't have to be perfect to have love for it, few are. What's so utterly terrible about it that you have detached yourself from your country in such a profound way?

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georgenorman 23 Jun 22 1.30pm
Originally posted by BlueJay But doesn't love of country involves staying - not becoming what you may dislike in others... someone just going where they fancy? A country doesn't have to be perfect to have love for it, few are. What's so utterly terrible about it that you have detached yourself from your country in such a profound way? He's pining for all them corn fields and ballet in the evening.
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georgenorman

23 Jun 22 1.30pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

He's pining for all them corn fields and ballet in the evening.

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Matov 23 Jun 22 1.42pm
Originally posted by BlueJay But doesn't love of country involves staying - not becoming what you may dislike in others... someone just going where they fancy? A country doesn't have to be perfect to have love for it, few are. What's so utterly terrible about it that you have detached yourself from your country in such a profound way? I like to think my country has left me to be fair, with its values and aims no longer matching my own. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jun 22 1.42pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

I like to think my country has left me to be fair, with its values and aims no longer matching my own.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 23 Jun 22 1.58pm
Originally posted by Matov I like to think my country has left me to be fair, with its values and aims no longer matching my own. I see Richard Littlejohn, that bastian of the right who seems to love everything little britain does, actually lives in Florida! Do as I say ....etc
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 23 Jun 22 1.58pm

Originally posted by Matov

I like to think my country has left me to be fair, with its values and aims no longer matching my own.

I see Richard Littlejohn, that bastian of the right who seems to love everything little britain does, actually lives in Florida! Do as I say ....etc

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Matov 23 Jun 22 2.18pm
Originally posted by croydon proud I see Richard Littlejohn, that bastian of the right who seems to love everything little britain does, actually lives in Florida! Do as I say ....etc A valid point. On a wider note though, does the notion of 'my country, wrong or right' actually hold any water now? I was the worst one in the world for wrapping myself in the flag and singing 'three german bombers' and so on but can any of us truly justify defending our countries based solely on an accident of birth? Especially in this day and age when the very institutions that define how a nation-state functions seem intent on warping everything? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jun 22 2.18pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

I see Richard Littlejohn, that bastian of the right who seems to love everything little britain does, actually lives in Florida! Do as I say ....etc

A valid point.

On a wider note though, does the notion of 'my country, wrong or right' actually hold any water now?

I was the worst one in the world for wrapping myself in the flag and singing 'three german bombers' and so on but can any of us truly justify defending our countries based solely on an accident of birth?

Especially in this day and age when the very institutions that define how a nation-state functions seem intent on warping everything?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 23 Jun 22 2.35pm
Originally posted by Matov A valid point. On a wider note though, does the notion of 'my country, wrong or right' actually hold any water now? I was the worst one in the world for wrapping myself in the flag and singing 'three german bombers' and so on but can any of us truly justify defending our countries based solely on an accident of birth? Especially in this day and age when the very institutions that define how a nation-state functions seem intent on warping everything? No water at all Matov- but it seems to make some people happy- insular is safety perhaps- i"m all for the wider world, so much to see, where are you thinking of going for the 9 months?
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 23 Jun 22 2.35pm

Originally posted by Matov

A valid point.

On a wider note though, does the notion of 'my country, wrong or right' actually hold any water now?

Especially in this day and age when the very institutions that define how a nation-state functions seem intent on warping everything?

No water at all Matov- but it seems to make some people happy- insular is safety perhaps- i"m all for the wider world, so much to see, where are you thinking of going for the 9 months?

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