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Davepalace707 Northumberland 16 May 21 10.48am
Originally posted by Elphers40 Nice one Casual this has been a thought provoking thread. I think someone referenced the “Norwich model” on a different thread A couple of weeks ago (might have been Viabow) as a realistic way of running Palace and when I thought about it I kinda thought (in the absence of a new Billionaire owner) it wouldn’t be the end of the world. But having secured Premier League stability- it’s a difficult thing to give up. I know we all moan when we lose, most fans across the country do, but overall I had been satisfied with our lot up until this season. I think it simply boils down to the fact that I just want to see us play better football more often than not. For me that starts and ends with the right manager and I really don’t think it’s anymore complicated than that. The squad needs a refresh/overhaul but what’s the point loading the Bench with new players when the manager doesn’t play them? Clearly there is a risk of relegation in a change from Roy - but there’s also a risk of that if we keep him! The smart move imo is for the next manager to have the experience and tools to bounce back up, if the worst were to happen just like Norwich have done this season. I reckon a fair few fans would accept that. The problem with Norwich is although they bounce straight back up they always follow it with a crxp year in the prem. West Brom are getting to be the same. That’s where having some of the gritty campaigners that we do pays off. Problem is keeping the supply of them fresh. “You miss 100 per cent of the shots you don’t take”
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Davepalace707

Northumberland 16 May 21 10.48am

Originally posted by Elphers40

Nice one Casual this has been a thought provoking thread.

I think someone referenced the “Norwich model” on a different thread A couple of weeks ago (might have been Viabow) as a realistic way of running Palace and when I thought about it I kinda thought (in the absence of a new Billionaire owner) it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
But having secured Premier League stability- it’s a difficult thing to give up. I know we all moan when we lose, most fans across the country do, but overall I had been satisfied with our lot up until this season. I think it simply boils down to the fact that I just want to see us play better football more often than not.
For me that starts and ends with the right manager and I really don’t think it’s anymore complicated than that.

The squad needs a refresh/overhaul but what’s the point loading the Bench with new players when the manager doesn’t play them?

Clearly there is a risk of relegation in a change from Roy - but there’s also a risk of that if we keep him!

The smart move imo is for the next manager to have the experience and tools to bounce back up, if the worst were to happen just like Norwich have done this season. I reckon a fair few fans would accept that.

The problem with Norwich is although they bounce straight back up they always follow it with a crxp year in the prem. West Brom are getting to be the same. That’s where having some of the gritty campaigners that we do pays off. Problem is keeping the supply of them fresh.

“You miss 100 per cent of the shots you don’t take”

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Tickled pink Cornwall 16 May 21 10.53am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio you forgot to mention Tier 4.....a brief summer in the sun and never to be seen again....Blackpool, Bradford, Oldham or Tier 5....often doing ok in the Championship but rarely if ever getting promoted....Luton, Millwall, coventry ---------------------- Coventry were top league from 1967 till 2001, biggest fall of anyone to date. Edited by Tickled pink (16 May 2021 10.53am)
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Tickled pink

Cornwall 16 May 21 10.53am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

you forgot to mention Tier 4.....a brief summer in the sun and never to be seen again....Blackpool, Bradford, Oldham

or Tier 5....often doing ok in the Championship but rarely if ever getting promoted....Luton, Millwall, coventry

----------------------

Coventry were top league from 1967 till 2001, biggest fall of anyone to date.

Edited by Tickled pink (16 May 2021 10.53am)

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PalazioVecchio south pole 16 May 21 10.57am
all this talk of us making progress and cracking on. can i just point out that over the course of twenty or thirty years..ALL the other clubs are building new Stadia, new terraces and cracking on. its a pain in the ass, but its true. by the time we ever get a 35,000 seater we will be about average for the Championship. Edited by PalazioVecchio (16 May 2021 11.01am) inár n-aonar i Anerley, uimhir a haon londain theas
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 16 May 21 10.57am

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all this talk of us making progress and cracking on.

can i just point out that over the course of twenty or thirty years..ALL the other clubs are building new Stadia, new terraces and cracking on.

its a pain in the ass, but its true.

by the time we ever get a 35,000 seater we will be about average for the Championship.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (16 May 2021 11.01am)

inár n-aonar i Anerley, uimhir a haon londain theas

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Elwissthebest Marlborough 16 May 21 11.02am
Originally posted by stujii Yes all fine and dandy but you’re forgetting a few things....We almost went out of existence twice. We were lucky not to get relegated to League 1 , We were loosing on average £4m a season, We also had to endure some really really toilet football in the Championship too...The grass isn’t always greener and in fact it can be downright dangerous All of which was more exciting than the dross we are watching at the moment. To be serious, of course, everything you mention is true. But I think the point being made by the OP is valid. The fascination of avoiding relegation every season is wearing thin. We don't have the money to do other than survive in this league, or rather, we have found a way to survive, but the product is dire and that being the case, I'd rather see us play local lads who have come through our youth system- with the odd judicious older hand. If that means being a yo-yo club again, so be it. If I wanted my team to play like Man City, I'd support...Man City. Edited by Elwissthebest (16 May 2021 11.09am)
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Elwissthebest

Marlborough 16 May 21 11.02am

Originally posted by stujii

Yes all fine and dandy but you’re forgetting a few things....We almost went out of existence twice. We were lucky not to get relegated to League 1 , We were loosing on average £4m a season, We also had to endure some really really toilet football in the Championship too...The grass isn’t always greener and in fact it can be downright dangerous

All of which was more exciting than the dross we are watching at the moment.
To be serious, of course, everything you mention is true. But I think the point being made by the OP is valid. The fascination of avoiding relegation every season is wearing thin. We don't have the money to do other than survive in this league, or rather, we have found a way to survive, but the product is dire and that being the case, I'd rather see us play local lads who have come through our youth system- with the odd judicious older hand. If that means being a yo-yo club again, so be it. If I wanted my team to play like Man City, I'd support...Man City.

Edited by Elwissthebest (16 May 2021 11.09am)

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Palace Old Geezer Midhurst 16 May 21 11.03am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio all this talk of us making progress and cracking on. can i just point out that over the course of twenty or thirty years..ALL the other clubs are building new Stadia, new terraces and cracking on. its a pain in the ass, but its true. Yep, agree with you about some of the new grounds that have cropped up. Can't bear to look when I drive past the Amex on A27. We are looking very tired at Selhurst these days. Still think it's a pity we can't build a sparkling new ground up the hill in Crystal Palace park. Now that would be something. Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.
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Palace Old Geezer

Midhurst 16 May 21 11.03am

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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

all this talk of us making progress and cracking on.

can i just point out that over the course of twenty or thirty years..ALL the other clubs are building new Stadia, new terraces and cracking on.

its a pain in the ass, but its true.

Yep, agree with you about some of the new grounds that have cropped up. Can't bear to look when I drive past the Amex on A27. We are looking very tired at Selhurst these days.

Still think it's a pity we can't build a sparkling new ground up the hill in Crystal Palace park. Now that would be something.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

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YT Oxford 16 May 21 11.09am
Originally posted by Casual Your opinion mate. No problem with that. Biggest /best Palace games in the last 30 years? -4-3 Liverpool at villa Pk -Blackburn play off game at home (Wright bright) -zenith cup final -fa cup final x 2 -Stockport away -sheff we’d away -5-0 Brighton at home -Brighton playoff final away -Watford play off final Wembley You could argue 3-3 Liverpool at home. How many of the best/ biggest games have been in the premier league ? The first three and a half in your list were all over 30 years ago. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 16 May 21 11.09am

Originally posted by Casual

Your opinion mate. No problem with that.

Biggest /best Palace games in the last 30 years?
-4-3 Liverpool at villa Pk
-Blackburn play off game at home (Wright bright)
-zenith cup final
-fa cup final x 2
-Stockport away
-sheff we’d away
-5-0 Brighton at home
-Brighton playoff final away
-Watford play off final Wembley

You could argue 3-3 Liverpool at home. How many of the best/ biggest games have been in the premier league ?

The first three and a half in your list were all over 30 years ago.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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est1905 16 May 21 5.53pm
Originally posted by Casual I’d be over the moon if we had a couple of seasons in the top league (full houses, get to do the big away grounds) then get relegated (get to see loads more goals/wins, do a few of the championship away grounds). I know promotion isn’t guaranteed/easy , but if we could spend a few years in each league it would be ideal for me. Get the parachute payments, play millwall/charlton as well as maybe winning a league, play off finals. More youngsters would get a chance , all the high earners would have clauses saying that would get reduced wages when relegated. 8 odd years in the top league and we haven’t improved Selhurst at all, I know the training ground is getting sorted. The atmosphere would always be great, either fighting for promotion, or a first year in the premier league. I’ve thought before that city/ Chelsea 50 odd year olds have had a right result, spent their 20s/ early 30s going to the ‘proper grounds’ coming away disappointed, understanding what it’s like to not be that good. Then reach their mid 30s/40s (when they are chilling out a bit and probably getting a few more quid) and they are winning leagues and going to the San Siro/ Nou camp.etc. I know if we get relegated we might not come back up again for ages or ever. Watford, Norwich, West Brom seem to have it sussed. Very very difficult to break the cycle though. If you are a yo-yo club you're likely to remain one for a few years till you fail to go up for a few years. Then you remain a Championship club. It hardly ever works the other way around. Maybe Burnley and Watford are the only examples.
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est1905

16 May 21 5.53pm

Originally posted by Casual

I’d be over the moon if we had a couple of seasons in the top league (full houses, get to do the big away grounds) then get relegated (get to see loads more goals/wins, do a few of the championship away grounds). I know promotion isn’t guaranteed/easy , but if we could spend a few years in each league it would be ideal for me. Get the parachute payments, play millwall/charlton as well as maybe winning a league, play off finals.
More youngsters would get a chance , all the high earners would have clauses saying that would get reduced wages when relegated.
8 odd years in the top league and we haven’t improved Selhurst at all, I know the training ground is getting sorted.
The atmosphere would always be great, either fighting for promotion, or a first year in the premier league.
I’ve thought before that city/ Chelsea 50 odd year olds have had a right result, spent their 20s/ early 30s going to the ‘proper grounds’ coming away disappointed, understanding what it’s like to not be that good. Then reach their mid 30s/40s (when they are chilling out a bit and probably getting a few more quid) and they are winning leagues and going to the San Siro/ Nou camp.etc.
I know if we get relegated we might not come back up again for ages or ever. Watford, Norwich, West Brom seem to have it sussed.

Very very difficult to break the cycle though. If you are a yo-yo club you're likely to remain one for a few years till you fail to go up for a few years. Then you remain a Championship club.
It hardly ever works the other way around. Maybe Burnley and Watford are the only examples.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 16 May 21 6.06pm
Originally posted by uncleneal I know what you are saying but all the time we are up there, we have slim chance of winning the cup or qualifying for Europe. Personally, I would die happy after that. Totally agree, we should win a cup sooner or later by staying in the top flight, hopefully the fa cup, i"m not to bothered about europe unless its the champions league or we win the europa thing.
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 16 May 21 6.06pm

Originally posted by uncleneal

I know what you are saying but all the time we are up there, we have slim chance of winning the cup or qualifying for Europe.

Personally, I would die happy after that.

Totally agree, we should win a cup sooner or later by staying in the top flight, hopefully the fa cup, i"m not to bothered about europe unless its the champions league or we win the europa thing.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 16 May 21 6.07pm
Originally posted by est1905 Very very difficult to break the cycle though. If you are a yo-yo club you're likely to remain one for a few years till you fail to go up for a few years. Then you remain a Championship club. It hardly ever works the other way around. Maybe Burnley and Watford are the only examples. Yes, lets not forget Sunderland, beat us 4-0 in a first half at selhurst, 3 years later, maybe 2, were in league 1 and still there!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 16 May 21 6.07pm

Originally posted by est1905

Yes, lets not forget Sunderland, beat us 4-0 in a first half at selhurst, 3 years later, maybe 2, were in league 1 and still there!

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YT Oxford 16 May 21 6.22pm
The term 'yo-yo' (with a hyphen) was registered as a trademark in 1932. In 1965, the US appeal court ruled AGAINST the trademark holder, on the grounds that the term "yo-yo" was in such common usage, that it would not be appropriate for the sole right to the term to be maintained. How miffed would you have been by that?!! Imagine such a ruling today against 'Hoover' or 'Jacuzzi' or 'Tannoy'. But it casts an alternative interpretation on the title of this thread. Palace are like the aggrieved trademark holder, robbed in broad daylight by one of the big boys with the support of the authorities. We are indeed a yo-yo club! Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 16 May 21 6.22pm

The term 'yo-yo' (with a hyphen) was registered as a trademark in 1932.

In 1965, the US appeal court ruled AGAINST the trademark holder, on the grounds that the term "yo-yo" was in such common usage, that it would not be appropriate for the sole right to the term to be maintained.

How miffed would you have been by that?!! Imagine such a ruling today against 'Hoover' or 'Jacuzzi' or 'Tannoy'. But it casts an alternative interpretation on the title of this thread. Palace are like the aggrieved trademark holder, robbed in broad daylight by one of the big boys with the support of the authorities. We are indeed a yo-yo club!

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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stujii 16 May 21 8.24pm
I think today’s game shows how it could be playing a more open game. Yes we won’t win em all but we will be entertained. I think the future is brighter than the picture painted. I live right next to the training ground and have watched the new academy going up. There is a real buzz about the place and it has shown with the U18 and U23s blossoming this season. I think the academy has been a shrewd move and will pay off big time if we can maintain our Prem status another couple of seasons. Next season is crucial though and transformational.... Let’s just hope you don’t get your wish Casual
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stujii

16 May 21 8.24pm

I think today’s game shows how it could be playing a more open game. Yes we won’t win em all but we will be entertained. I think the future is brighter than the picture painted. I live right next to the training ground and have watched the new academy going up. There is a real buzz about the place and it has shown with the U18 and U23s blossoming this season. I think the academy has been a shrewd move and will pay off big time if we can maintain our Prem status another couple of seasons. Next season is crucial though and transformational.... Let’s just hope you don’t get your wish Casual

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doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 16 May 21 8.56pm
Originally posted by stujii I think today’s game shows how it could be playing a more open game. Yes we won’t win em all but we will be entertained. I think the future is brighter than the picture painted. I live right next to the training ground and have watched the new academy going up. There is a real buzz about the place and it has shown with the U18 and U23s blossoming this season. I think the academy has been a shrewd move and will pay off big time if we can maintain our Prem status another couple of seasons. Next season is crucial though and transformational.... Let’s just hope you don’t get your wish Casual Great post Stujii. As much as we fans want to be entertained, the key to our future is staying in the PL long enough for our Academy to produce future PL players for our first team so as to reduce our reliance on high-maintenance 'seasoned' pros or other teams' cast-0ffs. We gained a number of promising youngsters last summer by reason of our upgraded academy. If we get relegated I can see those youngsters being poached by other PL clubs' academies. It's going to be difficult enough to keep them as it is IMO.
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doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 16 May 21 8.56pm

Originally posted by stujii

Great post Stujii. As much as we fans want to be entertained, the key to our future is staying in the PL long enough for our Academy to produce future PL players for our first team so as to reduce our reliance on high-maintenance 'seasoned' pros or other teams' cast-0ffs.

We gained a number of promising youngsters last summer by reason of our upgraded academy. If we get relegated I can see those youngsters being poached by other PL clubs' academies. It's going to be difficult enough to keep them as it is IMO.

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