You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Happy Centenary to the Ulster Border
January 26 2022 8.06pm

Happy Centenary to the Ulster Border

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 > Last >>

 

View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Jun 21 8.46am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

a few interesting programmes on the telly about the Partition of Ireland into the Republic and N.I.

It all seemed like a good idea at the time. And they say that 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

Like North and South Korea, newly created borders often create as many new problems as they solve some old problems.

The people in 1921 never envisaged a Catholic majority in the Province, due to high birth rates of one demographic and lower birth rates in a different demographic. And then all the problems associated with demographic transition.

In 1921 Perhaps instead of the 6 Counties (60:40 Protestant:Catholic) it may have been better to create a 4 county NI (100% Protestant). But then again in 1947 something similar happened in the creation of India/pakistan. Not exactly a peaceful transition, was it ?

The looneys at the extremes always want a fight, and always have unreasonable demands. And the moderates in the middle can only look on bemused.

Maybe the border is like a wheelchair, a necessary solution to a fairly intractable problem. Even though nobody wants it.

The link below explains the real origins of the politics of Ulster, to the uninitiated. Maybe the only colonised piece of territory in all of Europe ?
400 years of fun & games.

There are also lessons for England today from the historic mistakes of Ulster. Multiculturalism is often an edgy thing. And mono-cultural ghettos or failures of all to integrate (with each other ) will store up problems for later on.

Symbols matter : flags, anthems, languages, religions, football t shirts, and mindset. What school the kids attend ? or who can marry whom ?....all important considerations.

And so, love it or hate it. Happy Birthday the Border. Peace.

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Jun 2021 1.26pm)

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 15 Jun 21 9.53am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio


a few interesting programmes on the telly about the Partition of Ireland into the Republic and N.I.

It all seemed like a good idea at the time. And they say that 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

Like North and South Korea, newly created borders often create as many new problems as they solve some old problems.

The people in 1921 never envisaged a Catholic majority in the Province, due to high birth rates of one demographic and lower birth rates in a different demographic. And then all the problems associated with demographic transition.

In 1921 Perhaps instead of the 6 Counties (60:40 Protestant:Catholic) it may have been better to create a 4 county NI (100% Protestant). But then again in 1947 something similar happened in the creation of India/pakistan. Not exactly a peaceful transition, was it ?

The looneys at the extremes always want a fight, and always have unreasonable demands. And the moderates in the middle can only look on bemused.

Maybe the border is like a wheelchair, a necessary solution to a fairly intractable problem. Even though nobody wants it.

The link below explains the real origins of the politics of Ulster, to the uninitiated. Maybe the only colonised piece of territory in all of Europe ?
400 years of fun & games.

There are also lessons for England today from the historic mistakes of Ulster. Multiculturalism is often an edgy thing. And mono-cultural ghettos or failures of all to integrate (with each other ) will store up problems for later on. Symbols matter : flags, anthems, languages, religions, football t shirts, and mindset.

And so, love it or hate it. Happy Birthday the Border. Peace.

[Link]

Considering it was a Scottish King and many Scots took part in the Plantation they seem to get off lightly with the English bearing the majority blame. James I wanted to be King of all 5 countries hence the problem.

As for today it is a mess, publicly we have to defend our borders and our peoples, privately I suspect most mainstream politicians would not be upset if this become the Republic's problem.

Likewise in the republic publicly they want a united Ireland privately they haven't got a clue how to achieve this without alienating 1mm disgruntled northern Irish threatening another civil war.

Partitions never work sooner or later it comes down to war.

 


One more point

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Jun 21 10.45am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


we can even trace the origins of colonisations in Ireland to Elizabeth I, or as i would put it, 5 minutes after the Protestant Reformation.

When a military & economic superpower withdraws from a territory , there is often a civil war.

the brits withdrawal :

israel/palestine

india / pakistan...1947

southern ireland ( 1 civil war 1921 ) , and then edgy in Ulster.. a different civil war ( which isnt even all of Ulster).

The French withdrawal from Indochina/Vietnam....more bloodshed.

The Roman legions departure (449 AD) caused Celtic vs anglo-saxon Britain

The US withdrawal from Iraq - civil war.

And hence the EU withdrawing from the UK certainly makes for interesting times.


It strikes me that in 1900 the Southern Irish and the Brits both wanted to own & control Ulster. Today, maybe neither wants it ?

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag bristol 15 Jun 21 1.49pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio


we can even trace the origins of colonisations in Ireland to Elizabeth I, or as i would put it, 5 minutes after the Protestant Reformation.

When a military & economic superpower withdraws from a territory , there is often a civil war.

the brits withdrawal :

israel/palestine

india / pakistan...1947

southern ireland ( 1 civil war 1921 ) , and then edgy in Ulster.. a different civil war ( which isnt even all of Ulster).

The French withdrawal from Indochina/Vietnam....more bloodshed.

The Roman legions departure (449 AD) caused Celtic vs anglo-saxon Britain

The US withdrawal from Iraq - civil war.

And hence the EU withdrawing from the UK certainly makes for interesting times.


It strikes me that in 1900 the Southern Irish and the Brits both wanted to own & control Ulster. Today, maybe neither wants it ?

Britain tried to disassociate Ireland for decades leading to shocking misrule and ultimately the Troubles.

Not something we're proud of.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Jun 21 2.05pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

One of the issues with Ireland is the way history is taught and handed down to future generations. Ireland is totally nationalist, yet fails to see it. The Unionists have an English history or Scottish history that would seem totally out of step with actual English history. Combine the two inadequate and divisive narratives and Northern Ireland is what you get. Foreign people who study it, completely miss the point - as seen by Macron and countless others.
Most English simply aren't interested and I don't blame them. Questions about being Catholic or Protestant became irrelevant nearly two hundred years ago in England. But not in Ireland where I'm honestly often asked what a Protestant is - and they still won't believe it when I tell them. Irish think Protestant is Unionist, Unionists think Catholics are Republican. How to deal with this simplistic and stupid attitude is what people should consider.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Eggefahrt 15 Jun 21 2.23pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Fortunately, the border won't be there for another 100 years as Ireland will be unified long before then.

Edited by Cucking Funt (15 Jun 2021 2.23pm)

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 15 Jun 21 4.14pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Fortunately, the border won't be there for another 100 years as Ireland will be unified long before then.

Edited by Cucking Funt (15 Jun 2021 2.23pm)

i seriously doubt it.

At least Antrim can stay Prod & British, surely ? Along with a few thousand extra hectares in the vicinity. Give the unionists everything to the North & East of Lough Neagh. If Mickey O'Reilly the Catholic is living in East Belfast, offer him fifty grand and a council house to feckoff to Derry.

For the sake of keeping the peace.

But i agree with you about South County Down & Derry....it made a bit of sense as part of N.I in 1921 but they look very Nationalist today. If Alaister the Rangers supporter is living in Newry, offer him fifty grand and a council house to feckoff to Belfast.

Within a decade everybody will have fecked off to an appropriate jurisdiction with happy faces all round. No more ghetto's & Peace-Walls. No more riots.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Jun 2021 4.35pm)

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Eggefahrt 15 Jun 21 9.05pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

i seriously doubt it.

At least Antrim can stay Prod & British, surely ? Along with a few thousand extra hectares in the vicinity. Give the unionists everything to the North & East of Lough Neagh. If Mickey O'Reilly the Catholic is living in East Belfast, offer him fifty grand and a council house to feckoff to Derry.

For the sake of keeping the peace.

But i agree with you about South County Down & Derry....it made a bit of sense as part of N.I in 1921 but they look very Nationalist today. If Alaister the Rangers supporter is living in Newry, offer him fifty grand and a council house to feckoff to Belfast.

Within a decade everybody will have fecked off to an appropriate jurisdiction with happy faces all round. No more ghetto's & Peace-Walls. No more riots.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Jun 2021 4.35pm)

The Unionist cause is a busted flush now as they continue to be a minority in the province. I can't see any British government making an effort to keep it British if Republicanism kicks off again. Also NI voted to remain in the EU so union with the Republic would probably go down pretty well.

It's no longer a question of 'if' but 'when'. The momentum is unstoppable. The only impediment I can see is whether the Republic actually wants it any more.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 16 Jun 21 11.33am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

The Unionist cause is a busted flush now as they continue to be a minority in the province. I can't see any British government making an effort to keep it British if Republicanism kicks off again. Also NI voted to remain in the EU so union with the Republic would probably go down pretty well.

It's no longer a question of 'if' but 'when'. The momentum is unstoppable. The only impediment I can see is whether the Republic actually wants it any more.

with the thoughts of Loyalist terrorists getting violent in Dublin ? no thanks. I would rather respect the democratic wishes of a people with 400 years of history and three quarter of a million votes.

There is no advantage in forcing something upon them against their wishes.

If mainland Britain wants to de-couple from Ulster, then that is a separate question. We could end up with an Isle of Man ( Crown Dependency) type setup.

Considering Scotland may leave the UK, Ulster is the problem that never goes away. Surely the most important thing is peace and mutual respect for the two communities.

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 16 Jun 21 11.36am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

The Unionist cause is a busted flush now as they continue to be a minority in the province. I can't see any British government making an effort to keep it British if Republicanism kicks off again. Also NI voted to remain in the EU so union with the Republic would probably go down pretty well.

It's no longer a question of 'if' but 'when'. The momentum is unstoppable. The only impediment I can see is whether the Republic actually wants it any more.

As long as Northern Ireland is used to being run by a distant, corrupt and inefficient government, it can swap London/Stormont for Dublin. With Dublin, frankly, being far worse. Ireland might be interested in NI if they can get Westminster and/or the EU to pay for it indefinitely - with a little backhander of course. They can then swap the rule of the gunman to the rule of the brown envelope.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Online Flag Croydon 16 Jun 21 11.44am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Why would anybody not be angry at being forced to leave the EU against their wishes, have border it didn't want, be bullied lied to mis-sold the list goes on, and by a foreign power.

And it's loyalists too, who are outraged.

I have been seeing the whole saga in a different light.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 16 Jun 21 5.53pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

As long as Northern Ireland is used to being run by a distant, corrupt and inefficient government, it can swap London/Stormont for Dublin. With Dublin, frankly, being far worse. Ireland might be interested in NI if they can get Westminster and/or the EU to pay for it indefinitely - with a little backhander of course. They can then swap the rule of the gunman to the rule of the brown envelope.

the levels of corruption from the Dublin government ?

it would make most of the poorest bits of Africa & Latin America look like a smart suburb of Norway.

The politics of the Republic is so toxic i cannot blame any Orangeman for wanting to avoid a United Ireland.

 


Pay for a BBC TV license ? yeah, right.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 > Last >>

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Happy Centenary to the Ulster Border