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View est1905's Profile est1905 Flag 19 Jul 21 5.09pm Send a Private Message to est1905 Add est1905 as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

It would be interesting to know exactly how much he knew about the new players before we signed them. I very much doubt whether he had heard of Sunderland's reserve keeper let alone seen him in action and even Championship players probably flew under his radar so these are Dougie's signings and not his.

Having said all that the two main signings do seem to be a step in the right direction and let's hope that with Vieira's connections to Arsenal and Manchester City we can prise away some more useful talent

If he was serious about returning to England and managing I have no doubt he'd have done his homework and would have been aware of some if not all of the players suggested to him.
Freedman no doubt tracked them and began setting up deals. There is no way on this earth those deals would have gone through without the approval of PV, therefore, he may not have set these deals up but they are 100% PVs signings. Dont think for a second that Freedman wont have put a number of players on PVs desk and many of them PV would have said a flat NO.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Jul 21 5.23pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by est1905

If he was serious about returning to England and managing I have no doubt he'd have done his homework and would have been aware of some if not all of the players suggested to him.
Freedman no doubt tracked them and began setting up deals. There is no way on this earth those deals would have gone through without the approval of PV, therefore, he may not have set these deals up but they are 100% PVs signings. Dont think for a second that Freedman wont have put a number of players on PVs desk and many of them PV would have said a flat NO.

Barry Bannan available for 1 mil.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View Mwncisee's Profile Mwncisee Flag Middlesbrough 19 Jul 21 5.57pm Send a Private Message to Mwncisee Add Mwncisee as a friend

Originally posted by est1905

If he was serious about returning to England and managing I have no doubt he'd have done his homework and would have been aware of some if not all of the players suggested to him.
Freedman no doubt tracked them and began setting up deals. There is no way on this earth those deals would have gone through without the approval of PV, therefore, he may not have set these deals up but they are 100% PVs signings. Dont think for a second that Freedman wont have put a number of players on PVs desk and many of them PV would have said a flat NO.

Sorry I completely disagree with you. PV would not have known if his next managerial job would be in England. And even if he was sure it would be he would not have known where.

The way signing players works now is the team. And it is a team decide on a profile of player they need in the team/squad. This profile would generally be the position and type of player they require. So for an example `We would like a tall strong target man who can hold the ball up to bring others into play but is prolific in the air too. We'd like him to be below the age of 30 and costing no more than 20 million`. The profile is then given to the scouting team and they either check the database of players, use their network of contacts or even use external agencies to find fits for this profile.

Those potential players who fit the profile are but to the recruitment team. The recruitment team (Dougie) would then sign off say 6 of the identified players that they think are the best options. Those players may be scouted further and maybe Dougie beginning to sound agents out about their availability.

Once that is done the 6 potential targets may be whittled down a bit more to say 4. Maybe at this point the manager may be bought in to have a say as the scouting, recruitment and coaching team have another meeting to see which of those they will then prioritise to sign. If they get him great, if not then they go to the next one on the list.

So given that process do you really believe PV knew the profile of player he would need for a club he didn't know he was going to?

Reality is we would like to believe these are PV signings but that just is not the way its done anymore. The scouting of the players we are signing will have been done during last season. The considerations are the position, type and age of the player, but the overiding consideration is the finances of the deal (not just the transfer fee but the wage calculation over the course of his contract, his predicted future values, signing on fees and agent fees).

Its not a single person signing but a team signing, with to be honest Dougie having the most influential role

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Online Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 19 Jul 21 7.00pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Mwncisee

Sorry I completely disagree with you. PV would not have known if his next managerial job would be in England. And even if he was sure it would be he would not have known where.

The way signing players works now is the team. And it is a team decide on a profile of player they need in the team/squad. This profile would generally be the position and type of player they require. So for an example `We would like a tall strong target man who can hold the ball up to bring others into play but is prolific in the air too. We'd like him to be below the age of 30 and costing no more than 20 million`. The profile is then given to the scouting team and they either check the database of players, use their network of contacts or even use external agencies to find fits for this profile.

Those potential players who fit the profile are but to the recruitment team. The recruitment team (Dougie) would then sign off say 6 of the identified players that they think are the best options. Those players may be scouted further and maybe Dougie beginning to sound agents out about their availability.

Once that is done the 6 potential targets may be whittled down a bit more to say 4. Maybe at this point the manager may be bought in to have a say as the scouting, recruitment and coaching team have another meeting to see which of those they will then prioritise to sign. If they get him great, if not then they go to the next one on the list.

So given that process do you really believe PV knew the profile of player he would need for a club he didn't know he was going to?

Reality is we would like to believe these are PV signings but that just is not the way its done anymore. The scouting of the players we are signing will have been done during last season. The considerations are the position, type and age of the player, but the overiding consideration is the finances of the deal (not just the transfer fee but the wage calculation over the course of his contract, his predicted future values, signing on fees and agent fees).

Its not a single person signing but a team signing, with to be honest Dougie having the most influential role


Very interesting article in The Athletic on how Sporting directors/Directors of Football work. Well worth a read if you subscribe, but basically not too dissimilar to what you lay out here.

IMO, the DF (in our case) will have agreed with SP and others the general style of play they want to see and would have drawn up the criteria for each position they expected they would need to fill. The fact that Freedman had been tracking Guehi for many months points to the club wanting a CB who was comfortable on the ball and was happy to play out from the back, suggesting the club were looking for a more possession-based ball-retention style, something that has become increasingly necessary as more and more teams press higher up the pitch.

The fact that PV prefers this style is more a testimony to him and the club having a meeting of minds on how to play in future rather than the club kowtowing to PV's demands and I imagine the list of players Freedman has prepared will mainly include those who have the kind of attributes PV wants. The days of managers deciding on transfers is a thing of the past in the PL because club owners are not prepared to risk their multi-million pound businesses to the whims of a football manager/coach.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 19 Jul 21 9.30pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


Very interesting article in The Athletic on how Sporting directors/Directors of Football work. Well worth a read if you subscribe, but basically not too dissimilar to what you lay out here.

IMO, the DF (in our case) will have agreed with SP and others the general style of play they want to see and would have drawn up the criteria for each position they expected they would need to fill. The fact that Freedman had been tracking Guehi for many months points to the club wanting a CB who was comfortable on the ball and was happy to play out from the back, suggesting the club were looking for a more possession-based ball-retention style, something that has become increasingly necessary as more and more teams press higher up the pitch.

The fact that PV prefers this style is more a testimony to him and the club having a meeting of minds on how to play in future rather than the club kowtowing to PV's demands and I imagine the list of players Freedman has prepared will mainly include those who have the kind of attributes PV wants. The days of managers deciding on transfers is a thing of the past in the PL because club owners are not prepared to risk their multi-million pound businesses to the whims of a football manager/coach.

Perhaps a more conciliatory phrase would be "necessarily agreeing to PV's suggestions". I can't believe that any new manager cones in and immediately makes "demands".

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Southampton_Eagle's Profile Southampton_Eagle Flag At the after party 19 Jul 21 9.33pm Send a Private Message to Southampton_Eagle Add Southampton_Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by YT

Perhaps a more conciliatory phrase would be "necessarily agreeing to PV's suggestions". I can't believe that any new manager cones in and immediately makes "demands".

Nuno started making them before signing the contract.

 

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View Pinkfluff1981's Profile Pinkfluff1981 Flag 19 Jul 21 9.45pm Send a Private Message to Pinkfluff1981 Add Pinkfluff1981 as a friend

In our case. Low key manager, not highly desirable and a big risk manager, of course itís going to be the club making player decisions. PV would have a say to an extent but not a lot I imagine. Now if someone big came in, like klopp or Jose Or someone high in demand like nuno. You can bet your money on the fact they would be choosing players and all the sporting directors and scouts would be suggesting players and they literally pick and choose who they want. Where as PV would be virtually pressured to a point to except the choices and try and make of them.

 

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View doombear's Profile doombear Online Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 19 Jul 21 9.55pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Pinkfluff1981

In our case. Low key manager, not highly desirable and a big risk manager, of course itís going to be the club making player decisions. PV would have a say to an extent but not a lot I imagine. Now if someone big came in, like klopp or Jose Or someone high in demand like nuno. You can bet your money on the fact they would be choosing players and all the sporting directors and scouts would be suggesting players and they literally pick and choose who they want. Where as PV would be virtually pressured to a point to except the choices and try and make of them.


I'm not so sure that is the case any more even for the big boys. I agree the big names will be consulted more and may get to choose a preference from those on the list but they won't necessarily be able to say 'get me such a player' if he isn't already on the list unless the rest of the team who make the decisions agree that 'such a player' would fit the identified need and is within budget.

 

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View sprites's Profile sprites Flag Auckland 19 Jul 21 10.20pm Send a Private Message to sprites Add sprites as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


Absolutely this, IMO. Parish made it clear that DF identified and lined up targets (and probably got them/their agents to the negotiating table). Vieira's name may well have helped ensure that Olise and Guehi got over the line without any undue problems.

Let's not compare this window with previous ones. It seems that the club wanted to tread water during the Hodgson years until the debts for Allardyce's and others' purchases were paid down and many of the expensive contracts expired. Now that's happened they are going for a new approach based around a blend of youth and experience. Rumours that we may well have £50-80m to spend may well be true; Olise was £8m and Guehi is rumoured to be £18m and I firmly believe there's more to come in this window.


Edited by doombear (19 Jul 2021 9.06am)

Hopefully not too many more. Reckon we need 2-3 more max. Otherwise too much disruption and it'll be like watching a completely unfamiliar team. I'll have to fall in love all over again. As long as the backbone of Guiata, Tomkins, Luka, Schluppy and Benteke remain, I suppose it'll be okay.

 

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View Willo's Profile Willo Online Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 19 Jul 21 10.46pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Originally posted by sprites

Hopefully not too many more. Reckon we need 2-3 more max. Otherwise too much disruption and it'll be like watching a completely unfamiliar team. I'll have to fall in love all over again. As long as the backbone of Guiata, Tomkins, Luka, Schluppy and Benteke remain, I suppose it'll be okay.

We need an amalgam of youth and experience.
Supporters have been enthused by recent signings and the narrative of introducing young players but the objective of course is remaining in the PL.
We simply cannot go down the route of simply acquiring young prospects.

Edited by Willo (19 Jul 2021 10.47pm)

 

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View sprites's Profile sprites Flag Auckland 19 Jul 21 11.13pm Send a Private Message to sprites Add sprites as a friend

Originally posted by Willo

We need an amalgam of youth and experience.
Supporters have been enthused by recent signings and the narrative of introducing young players but the objective of course is remaining in the PL.
We simply cannot go down the route of simply acquiring young prospects.

Edited by Willo (19 Jul 2021 10.47pm)

Totally. Basically the goal is always two quality players for each position, right? And I don't think we're miles away from that even now. Possibly only the wing back positions and out wide. And perhaps a different type of striker to Benteke. So 3 more in would be great.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 20 Jul 21 7.46am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Pinkfluff1981

Low key manager, not highly desirable and a big risk manager, of course itís going to be the club making player decisions.

"The club" or "The Sporting Director" as I would hate to think that it was the Chairman picking the players to sign as he's not really a football man

 

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