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October 22 2021 5.34pm

Co2 shortage = no loo rolls in Waitrose

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 24 Sep 21 5.22am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

BP and Esso shutting petrol stations, shortage of drivers apparently-nothing to do with brexit ,although lots of these eu chaps did drive HGVs here! On the plus side who needs to drive? Get on your bikes and find/cycle to work- as one top CONservative said! Its saving the planet, saving your hard earned shekles to pay that huge heating bill coming, and keeping you fit, you can cancel the gym membership-to pay the rising food bills! Win ,win, win, win, whats not to like? If all that fails, and you can"t afford your christmas prezzies, lets bring in Jacob, Jacob will sort it!

Did you know that in April all HGV drivers had to go PAYE. IR 35 rules. Prior to that they were contracted. Now why would brexit cause loads of foreign drivers to go home? In reality its because they couldn't carry on fiddling the tax. Research would prevent all this nonsense CP.
At least you won't struggle with your capitalist existence along with all your philanthropic ways!

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Online Flag Chatham 24 Sep 21 5.29am Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

If the co2 shortage is so dire why not scrub it from the air we are 'polluting' so much with it!

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 24 Sep 21 7.08am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Yes, lots of bin men have been "headhunted", leading to bin collections extended from 2 to 3 weeks around the country,. this has been going on for weeks. Still, on the plus side, if theres no food in the shops, no toys at christmas, there wont be much to put in the bin! The council could make the 3 week collection permenant, whats not to like?

Maybe the extended bin delivery times have something to do with local councils trying to save money? Most Counciks seem to take penny pinching to the extreme these days
Certainly seemed to be a reason in 2019

[Link]

Edited by Spiderman (24 Sep 2021 7.51am)

 

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View samprior's Profile samprior Flag Hamburg 24 Sep 21 7.09am Send a Private Message to samprior Add samprior as a friend

Originally posted by croydon proud

Just goes to show what you can do if you don"t involve bureaucracy mate, that place looks comfortable as anywhere, lets hope the council and gov don"t come knocking for this certificate, this test, this tax, he needs to build a moat and stock it with crocs!

Haha yep

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 24 Sep 21 7.14am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by kuge

Indeed it's not a case of cheap labour from Europe, it's labour from Europe. HGV drivers are relatively well paid. Despite the fact that we have unemployed people in the UK there is a shortage of people with specific skills in many areas. Fruit pickers, (yes they are skilled), NHS staff, etc are all required. The fact that the government took no steps to train people to do this work over the past decade can only be explained by incompetence and arrogance.

Could the farmers not pay to train fruit pickers? They are the ones who exploit them with appalling terms and conditions.
Covering other points on this thread, can anyone actually produce Official figures to confirm how many European lorry drivers have left the UK? As no one is questioned on departure about their intentions etc, these figures must be an assumption, no?

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 24 Sep 21 7.16am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Let’s just say the lorry driver issue is ALL down to brexit. It is this sort of thing and it looks like only this sort of thing that gets either of the main parties to sit up and take notice of where we’re heading by constantly importing cheap labour and not training and paying our own properly and with good working conditions. I’ve heard these are the reasons that EU workers are in the jobs and our own citizens are not. Therefore Brexit always can be an opportunity to correct things, and you could say the reliance on a false valuation of the labour in lorry driving is the reason, and importing cheap labour is just a patch up job that makes the situation worse the longer you ignore it. A bit of pain (missing out on your favourite food items or just brands) will be worth it if they actually do address the faults they’ve just ignored for so long.

Good post

 

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 24 Sep 21 8.18am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by kuge

Indeed it's not a case of cheap labour from Europe, it's labour from Europe. HGV drivers are relatively well paid. Despite the fact that we have unemployed people in the UK there is a shortage of people with specific skills in many areas. Fruit pickers, (yes they are skilled), NHS staff, etc are all required. The fact that the government took no steps to train people to do this work over the past decade can only be explained by incompetence and arrogance.

You have not been listening to the grievances of British lorry drivers then. Pay decreasing, poor conditions, nowhere decent to park, buy and eat food. Eastern Europeans accept this. This is why we need to change and stop using them to fix our own issues.

 


COYP

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 24 Sep 21 9.06am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

There are HGV driver shortages all across Europe especially France and Germany. By definition this is a mobile workforce so with higher wages on offer, COVID restrictions and Brexit red tape these drivers are going to go where they can get the best deal.

I am not surprised that we are having problems with skilled worker shortages, for decades employers have been using cheap imported labour rather than training up our own.

Brexit is now uncovering the fault lines in our economy it will be bumpy for a while but I hope the government stands firm and insists that companies train and recruit from a UK workforce before we go looking for cheap foreign labour.

The furlough scheme ends in a few days and unemployment is bound to go up.

I believe this is the start of re-aligning our economy and especially our workforce.

 


One more point

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View kuge's Profile kuge Flag Peckham 24 Sep 21 9.41am Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

There are HGV driver shortages all across Europe especially France and Germany. By definition this is a mobile workforce so with higher wages on offer, COVID restrictions and Brexit red tape these drivers are going to go where they can get the best deal.

I am not surprised that we are having problems with skilled worker shortages, for decades employers have been using cheap imported labour rather than training up our own.

Brexit is now uncovering the fault lines in our economy it will be bumpy for a while but I hope the government stands firm and insists that companies train and recruit from a UK workforce before we go looking for cheap foreign labour.

The furlough scheme ends in a few days and unemployment is bound to go up.

I believe this is the start of re-aligning our economy and especially our workforce.

I agree the HGV driver shortage is across Europe, however, it is much worse in the UK because we have been part of a European workforce market and then suddenly withdrawn from that without a plan for how to fill the gaps. In Europe, a driver shortage in Germany can be addressed by drivers from Spain or Portugal.

I agree that it’s about time the low wage economy is addressed and that wages are brought up for many sectors. The realisation that we have been taking advantage of low paid employees for decades was not something that I remember being highlighted by pro-Brexit campaigners. It is good news that the low paid are a new priority.

The downside is that the increased costs will have to be passed on through goods and services creating inflationary forces in the economy. Everything will be getting more expensive and some things will become very expensive. This inflation will far outstrip that in other economies such as Europe and the EU because they have much larger younger workforces that can move around to address supply and demand.

COVID has actually restricted the movement of HGV drivers far less than most other groups of workers. Through all of the lockdowns drivers have generally been able to move around Europe, it is Brexit that stops them from being based in the UK and making UK deliveries.

Why do you think that the government has failed to address these issues for the past decade and more especially to foresee the disruption that was highlighted to them by the logistics industry? Could it just possibly be that they did not see this coming? Or that they ignored the many warning made by the industry that this would happen?

Any thoughts on how long will the realignment will go on? I am ‘surprised’ that those that carefully planned the Brexit project do not have all this in hand and solutions to the problems ready to go.

It will most certainly be an extremely bumpy ride. All the more so for the poor and unskilled. These are the people that should have been educated and trained to do the jobs that our economy requires.

I see ‘realignment’ being used a lot as a euphemism for collapse and stagnation. The UK is like a drug addict, hooked on thirty-plus years of cheap labour and cheap food. Then suddenly it has gone cold turkey. This is what we will probably be eating a Christmas if the gas shortage continues and it is possible to buy a turkey.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 24 Sep 21 9.49am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Business leaders and MPs have slammed the Government for allowing Britain to effectively shut down the gas storage needed to cope with an energy crisis.

The UK has minuscule levels of storage compared with other nations in Europe, which means families and businesses are more reliant than ever on imports.

Reports suggest the UK has just seven days' worth of gas storage compared with the 90 days of supply held by France and Germany.

They shut down a major facility in 2017 as part of their austerity economics.

'If the roof leaks, don't fix it, it costs money'.

Not having gas reserves is like not fixing the roof to tories, now its

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 24 Sep 21 9.49am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Business leaders and MPs have slammed the Government for allowing Britain to effectively shut down the gas storage needed to cope with an energy crisis.

The UK has minuscule levels of storage compared with other nations in Europe, which means families and businesses are more reliant than ever on imports.

Reports suggest the UK has just seven days' worth of gas storage compared with the 90 days of supply held by France and Germany.

They shut down a major facility in 2017 as part of their austerity economics.

'If the roof leaks, don't fix it, it costs money'.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 24 Sep 21 9.54am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Kuge I agree with lot of what you say.

As regards Brexit one of the points I always made was that our Westminster politicians were hiding behind the skirts of the EU when things went wrong.

For me taking back control was never "everything will be rosy once we leave the EU" rather that the government of the day has nowhere to hide.

If the current mob are no good the voters will kick them out the point being that our MPs have the power to fix these whether they do or not is another matter.

I think both Labour and Tory governments have been short sighted and lacked vision for decades. Chickens are coming home to roost on the economy and it hasn't helped that the EU has been so s***ty over red tape and the like.

Still there are no excuses it's time for the major parties to put forward their vision of a post Brexit Britain they have 3 years to plan it by the next GE the fallout from Brexit will be much clearer.

I didn't foresee the HGV shortage but I did expect the economy would hit trouble and it's clear that the current government didn't either.

Politicians like to think they are in charge in reality they are a cork bobbing up and down in the waves.

 


One more point

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