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October 22 2021 6.12pm

Bicycle trade no longer diverse enough

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 07 Oct 21 8.21pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

once an Eagle, always an Eagle. Half of HOL is living far from SE25.

but do not worry, my note about a ghetto that all speaks ONE foreign language ? these can also be discovered in France, Italy, Germany, the US and other places.

Of course the relevant languages will change from place to place : Spanish in the US, Turkish in Germany, Arab language varieties in France, and English in Marbella.

In all cases we are discussing a failure to assimilate and integrate with the Greater Host nation.

Diversity & multiculturalism should not allow mono-cultural ghettos. Remember the 7/7 attacks in London ? what motivated those boys to hate Londoners so much ?

living in Luton.

 

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View kuge's Profile kuge Flag Peckham 07 Oct 21 8.55pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

once an Eagle, always an Eagle. Half of HOL is living far from SE25.

but do not worry, my note about a ghetto that all speaks ONE foreign language ? these can also be discovered in France, Italy, Germany, the US and other places.

Of course the relevant languages will change from place to place : Spanish in the US, Turkish in Germany, Arab language varieties in France, and English in Marbella.

In all cases we are discussing a failure to assimilate and integrate with the Greater Host nation.

Diversity & multiculturalism should not allow mono-cultural ghettos. Remember the 7/7 attacks in London ? what motivated those boys to hate Londoners so much ?

So where do you live and how well have you assimilated with the local community?

 

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 07 Oct 21 9.46pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by kuge

So where do you live and how well have you assimilated with the local community?

when i lived in South London , i started supporting the local football team.

if i went to Afghanistan, i would start smoking heroin with the tribal elders. And i would try to respect their culture, learn their language and sample the local cuisine.

Diversity is a two way street....it needs respect in both directions.

happy ? What about yourself Kuge ? ever been liked by anybody ?

 


Eagle with SE19 altitude

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View DanH's Profile DanH Flag SW2 07 Oct 21 9.51pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by kuge

So where do you live and how well have you assimilated with the local community?

He lives on Craggy Island with Father Ted and Father Dougal.

Edited by DanH (07 Oct 2021 9.51pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 07 Oct 21 10.33pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

He lives on Craggy Island with Father Ted and Father Dougal.

Edited by DanH (07 Oct 2021 9.51pm)

Sign up for the holy orders Dan. You'll get more sex than Elvis at a nymphomaniac's retreat.

Go on, go on, go on.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View kuge's Profile kuge Flag Peckham 07 Oct 21 10.54pm Send a Private Message to kuge Add kuge as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

when i lived in South London , i started supporting the local football team.

if i went to Afghanistan, i would start smoking heroin with the tribal elders. And i would try to respect their culture, learn their language and sample the local cuisine.

Diversity is a two way street....it needs respect in both directions.

happy ? What about yourself Kuge ? ever been liked by anybody ?

There a lot going on here so I shall go through it in order. I also started supporting CPFC when I moved locally in my teens.

If I were to go to Afganistan I very much doubt that I would start smoking heroin. For a couple of reasons, firstly heroin is not as easily obtainable in Afganistan as it is elsewhere, the majority of the opium is exported before processing and the heroin that is produced inside Afganistan is all for export. Opium the raw material from which heroin is made is widely available but I would decline to partake as I am reliably informed that it’s bad for you.

There are around forty to sixty languages spoken in Afghanistan. Dari and Pashto are the two official languages. Farsi is also widely spoken. As you say it would be both necessary and polite to learn at least one. Afghan cuisine is great, there are a few good restaurants in London. Namak Mandi in Tooting is good.

Milan Kundera in his book Ihe Unbearable Lightness of Being wrote, “being in a foreign country means walking a tightrope high above the ground without the net afforded a person by the country where he has his family, colleagues, and friends, and where he can easily say what he has to say in a language he has known from childhood”. It is, as I am sure you will know difficult to be foreign.

I am very happy, thanks for asking.

I presume that you are asking where I live or have lived? I am originally from Wales. I presently live in England and I have previously lived in Japan. I speak fluent English, pretty good French and passable Japanese. I did study Welsh at school, however, I have forgotten most of it.

I am not sure that it is a good idea to dwell too much on how much you are liked by others.

“Il n’y a qu’un bonheur dans la vie, c’est d’aimer et d’être aimé”. George Sand

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 07 Oct 21 11.08pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

once an Eagle, always an Eagle. Half of HOL is living far from SE25.

but do not worry, my note about a ghetto that all speaks ONE foreign language ? these can also be discovered in France, Italy, Germany, the US and other places.

Of course the relevant languages will change from place to place : Spanish in the US, Turkish in Germany, Arab language varieties in France, and English in Marbella.

In all cases we are discussing a failure to assimilate and integrate with the Greater Host nation.

Diversity & multiculturalism should not allow mono-cultural ghettos. Remember the 7/7 attacks in London ? what motivated those boys to hate Londoners so much ?

Isn't this a bit like one of those an Englishman is never a foreigner abroad 'expat' statements? You're criticising others for not assimilating then in the same breath stating that you have an unwavering allegiance to aspects of your former country no matter where you live.

Quote (they have) a big satellite dish and programmes from the home country beamed in to the living room.

Quote once an Eagle, always an Eagle. Half of HOL is living far from SE25.

Do you think those statements sit well together?


Overly concerning yourself with how things are in the UK or being keyed into life here, would appear to suggest that you don't have your focus on assimilating into the place you opted to move to. Isn't that something you deem to be a problem when it's others doing it? You're an immigrant; a minority (you know, those types you spend all day on here generalising about and demeaning). No better or worse than anyone else moving to a different country, so perhaps talking about immigrants here like they're a glob of discharge is a little judgemental, as I can't imagine you would want to be viewed that way yourself.

Anyway, with all of that in mind, let's hope at a minimum you speak the local language and predominantly live around locals rather than your fellow immigrants. As it's important to you that others do, hopefully you are following your own advice.

Edited by BlueJay (07 Oct 2021 11.21pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 07 Oct 21 11.21pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Do you think those statements sit well together?


Overly concerning yourself with how things are in the UK or being keyed into life here, would appear to suggest that you don't have your focus on assimilating into the place you traded your allegiance for. Isn't that something you deem to be a problem when it's others doing it? You're an immigrant; a minority (you know, those types you spend all day on here generalising about and slagging off). No better or worse than anyone else moving to a different country, so perhaps talking about immigrants here like they're a glob of discharge is a little judgemental, as I can't imagine you would want to views that way yourself.


Didn't he say that he would, 'try to respect their culture, learn their language'?

In his and my view multiculturalism doesn't work in terms of high social cohesion, never has and probably never will. It's independent of the English/British aboard or foreigners here...Now that doesn't mean that anyone's hating anybody or that for a minority of any group that assimilation can be a success....I can think of wonderful people I taught who any nation would be proud to have....but at the same time their own nation was being deprived of them.

It's a very nuanced picture, which isn't really suitable for forum soundbites in truth. If people choose to criticise the forced integration of multiple cultures then they themselves get criticised by those still living the integrationist dream.....it's all very tribal and binary.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 11.22pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jeeagles Flag 07 Oct 21 11.30pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Didn't he say that he would, 'try to respect their culture, learn their language'?

In his and my view multiculturalism doesn't work in terms of high social cohesion, never has and probably never will. It's independent of the English/British aboard or foreigners here...Now that doesn't mean that anyone's hating anybody or that for a minority of any group that assimilation can be a success....I can think of wonderful people I taught who any nation would be proud to have....but at the same time their own nation was being deprived of them.

It's a very nuanced picture, which isn't really suitable for forum soundbites in truth. If people choose to criticise the forced integration of multiple cultures then they themselves get criticised by those still living the integrationist dream.....it's all very tribal and binary.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 11.22pm)

This nation is very proud that so many people can succeed here and call it home.

Some people can't cope with those who they can't identify with. Successful people see how people with different background and points of view can all add value and enrich each others lives.

Getting on is easy. I've got a lot of pity for people that can't do it.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 07 Oct 21 11.37pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Didn't he say that he would, 'try to respect their culture, learn their language'?

In his and my view multiculturalism doesn't work in terms of high social cohesion, never has and probably never will. It's independent of the English/British aboard or foreigners here...Now that doesn't mean that anyone's hating anybody or that for a minority of any group that assimilation can be a success....I can think of wonderful people I taught who any nation would be proud to have....but at the same time their own nation was being deprived of them.

It's a very nuanced picture, which isn't really suitable for forum soundbites in truth. If people choose to criticise the forced integration of multiple cultures then they themselves get criticised by those still living the integrationist dream.....it's all very tribal and binary.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 11.22pm)

His comment you referred was a non reply as it purposefully dodged any comment on where he is and how he interacts (which likely tells us much of what we need to know) to make a joke about how he'd smoke heroin in Afghanistan.

I just found it amusing to so harshly attack immigrants moving here as those sitting around watching TV broadcast from the country they left behind, while going on to effectively say that he's proud of doing precisely that himself as an immigrant. The totality of what he said just speaks to a visceral sweeping dislike of certain types of people that he feels should adhere to a standard that he himself has a much more relaxed view of with his own behaviour.

I would agree that the above is entirely detached though on whether it's a 'good idea' for masses of people to move from one country to another in a short period and all live in communities together with as little change to their lives as possible. I certainly don't think that's a great way to assimilate or fit in and there are better approaches (much smaller numbers, spread out locations and so on). Change is inevitable, but how the government approach that and what the population would like has often been out of sync.


Edited by BlueJay (07 Oct 2021 11.38pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 08 Oct 21 12.02am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

His comment you referred was a non reply as it purposefully dodged any comment on where he is and how he interacts (which likely tells us much of what we need to know) to make a joke about how he'd smoke heroin in Afghanistan.

I just found it amusing to so harshly attack immigrants moving here as those sitting around watching TV broadcast from the country they left behind, while going on to effectively say that he's proud of doing precisely that himself as an immigrant. The totality of what he said just speaks to a visceral sweeping dislike of certain types of people that he feels should adhere to a standard that he himself has a much more relaxed view of with his own behaviour.

I would agree that the above is entirely detached though on whether it's a 'good idea' for masses of people to move from one country to another in a short period and all live in communities together with as little change to their lives as possible. I certainly don't think that's a great way to assimilate or fit in and there are better approaches (much smaller numbers, spread out locations and so on). Change is inevitable, but how the government approach that and what the population would like has often been out of sync.

Edited by BlueJay (07 Oct 2021 11.38pm)

I think because you naturally think in egalitarian terms it's easy for you to pick up on the natural biases that exist in tribalism.

However isn't the point of identifying to a particular tribe, political, class or ethnicity that you will probably have an automatic bias that results in double standards? I've spent quite a lot of time picking at the left on this issue as they talk equality yet allow for double standards in their 'protected groups' for example....or obsess over racial bias while being ok with class and other forms of bias.

Not that it really amounts to a hill of beans. I realise that you have realistic views on integration though you tend to view it in as positive terms as possible....maybe's that a good thing because it's hardly as though anyone has a choice anyway.

But in regards to what we attack on forums like yourself I tend to attack what I think is hypocrisy....which in truth it's one of the easiest things to do as to an extent everyone's a hypocrite. Some are just better at hiding it than others.

Personally I accept that double standards are inevitable as practical experience taught me that the dream of objective egalitarianism wasn't achievable anyway.....not to say that in some respects I don't find it a laudable aim...it's just that I regard it as unrealistic yet forceful and overtly denialist. Perhaps that is a significant point of difference between us...the attitude towards egalitarianism...you look towards it as achievable while I regard it with cynicism.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 08 Oct 21 1.14am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

But in regards to what we attack on forums like yourself I tend to attack what I think is hypocrisy....which in truth it's one of the easiest things to do as to an extent everyone's a hypocrite. Some are just better at hiding it than others.

Personally I accept that double standards are inevitable as practical experience taught me that the dream of objective egalitarianism wasn't achievable anyway.....not to say that in some respects I don't find it a laudable aim...it's just that I regard it as unrealistic yet forceful and overtly denialist. Perhaps that is a significant point of difference between us...the attitude towards egalitarianism...you look towards it as achievable while I regard it with cynicism.

Some interesting thoughts there certainly. As for tribalism and tribalism, I don't really think societies work in the absence of either, and so it comes down to a matter of degrees this way or that. And even at face value they're both open to such interpretation and multi factored they are as much flawed ideas than easily applicable realities. As in, construct your perfect reality - your perfect tribe or your just society - and it will soon become apparent why so many aspects of it are far from either. Set the dial too far one way or the other and all it results in is politically entrenched attitudes that stops an individual being able to relate to the average person.

As for hypocrisy you're bang on, we're all hypocrites to varying extents so can't help but point it out in others too. Being such a universal quality that too is often something of a waste of time to highlight (but we continue to do so). That said, living as closely to integrity and fairness (treating others as we would like to be treated) as possible is a laudable and attractive quality, and so that might factor into where people 'set their dials'. The more tribal the less we do that I feel, both left and right. It becomes all too easy to mentally count others out.

Comedian Norm MacDonald died the other day and he had a joke about hypocrisy.

Somebody said to him that the worst thing about Bill Cosby was the hypocrisy.. Macdonald said he disagreed.. and 'thought it was the raping'.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Oct 2021 1.16am)

 

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