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December 1 2021 6.03pm

Norway bow and arrow attack

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 15 Oct 21 2.57pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

This guy was involved in that and the Christmas Market attacks, yet has been given bail in Ireland. Which I couldn’t even find the report on. Even this report is 'look the poor dear is sick' : he lived for years in Ireland, without even changing his name! Without being alarmist, Ireland is a base for them. Very poor Police intelligence, combined with an understanding that we won't face attacks. Don't on your own doorstep etc. Try looking next door.

[Link]

I was surprised to see Ireland only recently joined SIS. If he has been granted bail, he has long gone. How you justify bail in these circumstances beggars belief

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 15 Oct 21 3.46pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

I was surprised to see Ireland only recently joined SIS. If he has been granted bail, he has long gone. How you justify bail in these circumstances beggars belief

I can't criticise the Irish we have plenty of wanted people living in the UK with impunity.

 


One more point

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 15 Oct 21 4.13pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I can't criticise the Irish we have plenty of wanted people living in the UK with impunity.

I agree and have said the same about those granted bail in the U.K. I was surprised about SIS though as I thought it had been used by all EU States. Given the Common Travel Area between U.K. and Ireland it must have been a safe haven for wanted criminals travelling from the UK

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 15 Oct 21 4.33pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

I agree and have said the same about those granted bail in the U.K. I was surprised about SIS though as I thought it had been used by all EU States. Given the Common Travel Area between U.K. and Ireland it must have been a safe haven for wanted criminals travelling from the UK

Funnily enough, we usually get the ones wanted by the UK. Has happened several times recently. The UK tips us off. Like Britain, we have an issue with the French court system, as we have basically Common Law, overlaid with precedence and the innocent until proven guilty, plus the Constitution and then the EU Court. When France wants people the precedence has been set that we can't just blindly accept French Court rulings. The French system has no jury, different standards of evidence and no presumption of innocence. That was basically the crux of the case, plus he played up about disability. Maybe he's gone, maybe someone's watching? I wouldn't hold my breath.
Unfortunately,Ireland really not on the cutting edge of policing. Woefully under resourced.

 


I used to put the manager's name in front of Red and Blue but got fed up with changing it. If someone cool becomes our manager then maybe..

Red and Blue Army!

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 15 Oct 21 5.46pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

This world is getting worse. Until we toughen up and start dealing with people like this properly. Since we allow the Saudis to invest and live here maybe they could lend a hand or two to advise how to dispose of the archer.

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 15 Oct 21 6.40pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There are doctrines within Islam that are never going to accept western culture or group identity. Just like you'll never accept conservative Islam as a way of life.

Within that tension attacks are inevitable from a minority and as population size and concentration of demographics mature separation of identity will become more confident in challenging western norms and laws.

You and others follow this idea, that there is going to be a merging of interests and cultures and good people will provide examples and everyone else will muddle along and all the rest of it. I follow, what I consider the more realistic reality that integration can only partially work and ultimately the stronger will dominates...which is identity.

I think your idea that this is just nutters reading extreme web sites is itself indoctrination. Anti western doctrines are very well established. As I've said, all this is an inevitability as beneath the coke advert, which the mainstream and social liberalism promote from their nice enclaves, the underbelly of identity politics stirs and slowly becomes stronger as demographics slowly change.

Significant differences in culture creates division and eventually social division leads to conflict. It's a lesson rinse and repeated throughout history and a lesson ignored out of a well intentioned if erroneous desire for positivity.


Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Oct 2021 7.30am)

Interestingly I stated in my last message to you that life will never me some kind of simplistic 'my white brother' reality, nor will it be a 'coke advert' of all cultures hand in hand (something you've repeated above as if you're telling me something I didn't just say). I also stated that I'm no fan of mass immigration, indeed I voted for Brexit which is somewhat revealing of that.

If anything, events like this of a white Danish man who was known to have mental health problems and who recently converted to Islam go to show what a confusing and connected world of factors and contradictions we live in. It's clearly impossible to strip away an online indoctrination component due to both the self evident realities of it and the basics of what is already known about how the killer conducted himself.

In any case, whether Islamic, far right or whatever, online exposure, desensitisation and normalisation to circles that are either extreme, or often fringe and sitting uncomfortably close to those looking to visit harm upon others, is unnervingly common and has consequences for good people in real life. It's not the full picture though of course, I agree. Mass immigration and the like are certainly occurrences that don't solely bring with them some kind of untroubled basket of cash. It may economically fit the bill for the government with regard for cheap labour, but there is no thought as to the impact on communities, nor really a voice (outside of the Brexit vote) for them to have a say. A mental detachment from society can certainly on occasion lead people to worrying places (especially when religion, or other strident, uncompromising belief systems are part of the mix). That can be true of anyone, but certainly is a factor here too. It's government all over though to not think beyond £££, and I can't see it changing because ordinary people aren't the voices they're listening to. If you're not rich, or a corporation your interests are not even secondary. It's the way of the world.


Edited by BlueJay (15 Oct 2021 6.58pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 15 Oct 21 7.39pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Interestingly I stated in my last message to you that life will never me some kind of simplistic 'my white brother' reality, nor will it be a 'coke advert' of all cultures hand in hand (something you've repeated above as if you're telling me something I didn't just say). I also stated that I'm no fan of mass immigration, indeed I voted for Brexit which is somewhat revealing of that.

It's said in observation regarding social liberalism and its ideals rather than in direct reference to you. You may be an adherent but what I wrote wasn't a commentary on how much you might agree with different aspects....well not this time.

Edit: Reading back I can see why you wrote that as one section did reference you....apologies. I suppose I mean that in general I was talking in overview.

Don't get me wrong, there is no such thing as the perfect ideology anyway as humans act them out. I'm a form of social conservative and I see the problems inherent within that approach as well. I just view them as less severe.....but there are issues nonetheless.


Originally posted by BlueJay

If anything, events like this of a white Danish man who was known to have mental health problems and who recently converted to Islam go to show what a confusing and connected world of factors and contradictions we live in. It's clearly impossible to strip away an online indoctrination component due to both the self evident realities of it and the basics of what is already known about how the killer conducted himself.

In any case, whether Islamic, far right or whatever, online exposure, desensitisation and normalisation to circles that are either extreme, or often fringe and sitting uncomfortably close to those looking to visit harm upon others, is unnervingly common and has consequences for good people in real life. It's not the full picture though of course, I agree. Mass immigration and the like are certainly occurrences that don't solely bring with them some kind of untroubled basket of cash. It may economically fit the bill for the government with regard for cheap labour, but there is no thought as to the impact on communities, nor really a voice (outside of the Brexit vote) for them to have a say. A mental detachment from society can certainly on occasion lead people to worrying places (especially when religion, or other strident, uncompromising belief systems are part of the mix). That can be true of anyone, but certainly is a factor here too. It's government all over though to not think beyond £££, and I can't see it changing because ordinary people aren't the voices they're listening to. If you're not rich, or a corporation your interests are not even secondary. It's the way of the world.

Edited by BlueJay (15 Oct 2021 6.58pm)

In terms of online influences we know that this is a double edged sword problem. I think we can all agree that media that tells people to commit violence is already against the law and has been....digital or not.....long before we were born.

Andy Warhol said that the modern age will see everyone have their 15 minutes and in a sense the Internet has enabled a form of that and opened up previously restricted worlds to the digital masses.

This has massive positives but like everything anything publicly available will also be misused and in some cases horribly so....we get streamed murders and peados using it and while you seem to like highlighting the 'far right' you have communists and Antifa...everyone....the whole apple.

There will always be people who will want to restrict ideas they disagree with. History has been here many times and America was partly born to free itself from thought policing as the first amendment is pretty clear about.

I admit it's an area that needs careful review, however I have zero trust in the modern culture to navigate this area with anything other than a pathway to icebergs.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Oct 2021 10.00pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 17 Oct 21 4.36am Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

In terms of online influences we know that this is a double edged sword problem. I think we can all agree that media that tells people to commit violence is already against the law and has been....digital or not.....long before we were born.

Andy Warhol said that the modern age will see everyone have their 15 minutes and in a sense the Internet has enabled a form of that and opened up previously restricted worlds to the digital masses.

This has massive positives but like everything anything publicly available will also be misused and in some cases horribly so....we get streamed murders and peados using it and while you seem to like highlighting the 'far right' you have communists and Antifa...everyone....the whole apple.

There will always be people who will want to restrict ideas they disagree with. History has been here many times and America was partly born to free itself from thought policing as the first amendment is pretty clear about.

I admit it's an area that needs careful review, however I have zero trust in the modern culture to navigate this area with anything other than a pathway to icebergs.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Oct 2021 10.00pm)

Yes it's a tricky one no doubt. Everyone seeking influence or $$ has become better at using and exploiting the Internet, so it's gone from some kind of initial geeks paradise, to brave new world, to fairground hall of mirrors surrounded by dark alleys. The idea of an unregulated Internet and one controlled by the government have both become disturbing outcomes.

Social media networks are key to a sensible outcome but feel that their bottom line will always win, and that human nature (the desire for a 'quick fix' of argument or a video thats a little more OTT than the previous one) is catered to by the algorithms rather than better nature. These can certainly warp peoples reward centres and reality, and it's possible that changes that highlight commonality if brought in too fast would drive people to other platforms.

As such it may be down to advancements in Internet speeds and technologies that feed into how people interact. The current often angry faceless disconnect in online communications would likely change if interactions became more aligned with how people converse in real life. I can't imagine many of the conversations on here would pan out as they do if people were, say at a virtual bar together. I'm aware these technologies are already here in a sense but they're not really the norm or in a format that is 'real life' or rewarding enough to take centre stage.


 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 17 Oct 21 5.00am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Yes it's a tricky one no doubt. Everyone seeking influence or $$ has become better at using and exploiting the Internet, so it's gone from some kind of initial geeks paradise, to brave new world, to fairground hall of mirrors surrounded by dark alleys. The idea of an unregulated Internet and one controlled by the government have both become disturbing outcomes.

Social media networks are key to a sensible outcome but feel that their bottom line will always win, and that human nature (the desire for a 'quick fix' of argument or a video thats a little more OTT than the previous one) is catered to by the algorithms rather than better nature. These can certainly warp peoples reward centres and reality, and it's possible that changes that highlight commonality if brought in too fast would drive people to other platforms.

As such it may be down to advancements in Internet speeds and technologies that feed into how people interact. The current often angry faceless disconnect in online communications would likely change if interactions became more aligned with how people converse in real life. I can't imagine many of the conversations on here would pan out as they do if people were, say at a virtual bar together. I'm aware these technologies are already here in a sense but they're not really the norm or in a format that is 'real life' or rewarding enough to take centre stage.

I wouldn't disagree with your points.

I watched an interesting video related to this topic yesterday.

I'll link it here:

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Oct 2021 5.05am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 17 Oct 21 10.07am Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend


will the next Coca-Cola advert show Saudi royalty singing and holding hands with LGBTQ gender-fluid types ?

nothing would surprise me anymore.

 


Eagle with SE19 altitude

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 17 Oct 21 5.20pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio


will the next Coca-Cola advert show Saudi royalty singing and holding hands with LGBTQ gender-fluid types ?

nothing would surprise me anymore.

Well that would certainly be preferable to people being put to death wouldn't it, so that might be a useful addendum to your thought.

Money talks though, so for instance with Saudi's Newcastle takeover we can expect the Saudi buyers to firmly keep their hands off the club politically, and for fans and campaigners to act like there is 'meaningful dialogue' that's somehow going to transform human rights in Saudi Arabia. Which it of course won't.

 

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