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May 28 2022 8.25pm

Crystal Palace vs Newcastle match thread

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View Mathers's Profile Mathers Flag 24 Oct 21 10.21am Send a Private Message to Mathers Add Mathers as a friend

Ayew v Brighton. Benteke v Newcastle. Both 1-on-1 with the keeper and couldnít even get it on target. I know itís only 1 moment in the game but itís clear weíd have gone on to win these games if these were buried.

When we have a fully fit squad itís hard to see either of these two getting minutes. If we can somehow squeeze Edouard, Zaha, Eze and Olise on the pitch at the same time then we will offer unreal pace, skill and finishing. If Iím being honest it really can be 3 from 4 unless we want to leave ourselves very exposed.

 

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View eagleman13's Profile eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 24 Oct 21 10.29am Send a Private Message to eagleman13 Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add eagleman13 as a friend

Originally posted by Painter

Benteke and Edouard play as a pair, Benteke is now getting the service and is getting back to his best. Every striker misses chances, but what appears to be missed by most, he is getting in position to get chances.

This was highlighted on MoTD, Jenas showed the little bits of understanding these 2 have got in their play together, one stepping over the ball to set up the other, worked a few times(that they showed).

This is the best Tekker's has been playing in over 3 seasons now, yes, his misses contributed to us only drawing, but, he does seem to have some fire in his belly & looks like he is enjoying playing. I still believe Edouard will be our main CF before the season is out, but, he does need chances in that position, ala Zaha-Edouard-Olise in a front three.

Time will tell.

 


The Child Has Grown,
The Dream Is Gone, And,
I Have Become,
Comfortably Numb.

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View Skinnii's Profile Skinnii Flag Sheffield 24 Oct 21 11.59am Send a Private Message to Skinnii Add Skinnii as a friend

A couple of points I'd like to pick up on.

Firstly - Benteke. We're finally, after 3 years, playing to his strengths. He's scored more headed goals since his debut in the premier league than anyone else. Not only do we need to cross the ball but also have people in and around him in the box to help free up space or have him one on one with a defender. Under Hodgson we were too passive, being reluctant to cross the ball and not having enough support in the box to allow Benteke to find space or isolate a defender.

I'd even go as far as to say Zaha is holding us back here. If you look at the chances Benteke had (the goal and the times he hit the woodwork) they all came from quick crosses. For the goal Olise didn't hesitate when he received the pass from Gallagher, he immediately shifted the ball onto his left foot and whipped in the cross. I doubt Zaha would have done this. He would have most likely driven the defender into the box and then tried to either cut back or make a shooting chance for himself. This is not playing to Benteke's strengths.

EDIT: I realise it was Mitchell that crossed for the goal. The Olise cross resulted in Benteke hitting the post. But I believe the point still stands. Both were crosses Benteke could attack.

Secondly - it's been said we have less points at this stage in the season than we did last year. Yes this is true. But it's also true we have had a harder start than we did last season. The average position of the teams played this season based on where those teams finished last year is 9th (counting Brentford as 20th as they came up via the playoffs). Last season the average position was 11th (counting Fulham as 20th as they came up via the playoffs and Leeds as 18th as they came up as champions). So far this season we've played 4 of last year's top 6 (3 of which were away from home). At this stage last season we'd played 2 of the top 6 (both away from home).

Finally - We all need to step back and take a deep breath. Yes the results haven't been what our general play has deserved. But did anyone seriously think Vieira would have been able to change our play style so quickly and completely in such a short period of time? I believed it would take time and the start to the season would be hard, given the fixtures we had and the changes to the team. We still need to sort out defending corners, but in open play we look solid at the back and exciting going forward. I believe the results will come. No need to panic, we just need to be patient.

Edited by Skinnii (24 Oct 2021 12.52pm)

 


"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make some other b*stard die for theirs" - General Patton

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View southnorwoodhill's Profile southnorwoodhill Flag 24 Oct 21 12.18pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by Skinnii

A couple of points I'd like to pick up on.

Firstly - Benteke. We're finally, after 3 years, playing to his strengths. He's scored more headed goals since his debut in the premier league than anyone else. Not only do we need to cross the ball but also have people in and around him in the box to help free up space or have him one on one with a defender. Under Hodgson we were too passive, being reluctant to cross the ball and not having enough support in the box to allow Benteke to find space or isolate a defender.

I'd even go as far as to say Zaha is holding us back here. If you look at the chances Benteke had (the goal and the times he hit the woodwork) they all came from quick crosses. For the goal Olise didn't hesitate when he received the pass from Gallagher, he immediately shifted the ball onto his left foot and whipped in the cross. I doubt Zaha would have done this. He would have most likely driven the defender into the box and then tried to either cut back or make a shooting chance for himself. This is not playing to Benteke's strengths.

Secondly - it's been said we have less points at this stage in the season than we did last year. Yes this is true. But it's also true we have had a harder start than we did last season. The average position of the teams played this season based on where those teams finished last year is 9th (counting Brentford as 20th as they came up via the playoffs). Last season the average position was 11th (counting Fulham as 20th as they came up via the playoffs and Leeds as 18th as they came up as champions). So far this season we've played 4 of last year's top 6 (3 of which were away from home). At this stage last season we'd played 2 of the top 6 (both away from home).

Finally - We all need to step back and take a deep breath. Yes the results haven't been what our general play has deserved. But did anyone seriously think Vieira would have been able to change our play style so quickly and completely in such a short period of time? I believed it would take time and the start to the season would be hard, given the fixtures we had and the changes to the team. We still need to sort out defending corners, but in open play we look solid at the back and exciting going forward. I believe the results will come. No need to panic, we just need to be patient.

Good post. Regarding Zaha I am in agreement, he has a tendency to overplay the situation, and it is refreshing to see a player come in and be direct like Olise. I am reminded of John Salako who would get down the wing and whip in a quality cross.
PV has the pieces to the puzzle and has to fit them together to bring the bigger picture into view. We are getting there, and when it clicks I think we will have a very decent team.

 

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View YT's Profile YT Flag Oxford 24 Oct 21 1.30pm Send a Private Message to YT Add YT as a friend

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Are you insane, or on the wind up?

Taking yesterday as an example we dominated a team that last season were pretty similar ability wise to us. They salvaged a point because of an exceptional individual moment.

Yes its frustrating, but I'd rather walk away from games feeling frustrated that we should have done. Instead of lucky that we scored with our only chance.

We knew this season would be a bit of a transition, and there is stuff to work on. But its 90% positive at the min.

try to enjoy the good stuff. If not why not go and support Man City, they win every week

But maybe NOT next week, eh?

 


Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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View Mathers's Profile Mathers Flag 24 Oct 21 1.56pm Send a Private Message to Mathers Add Mathers as a friend

Originally posted by Skinnii

A couple of points I'd like to pick up on.

Firstly - Benteke. We're finally, after 3 years, playing to his strengths. He's scored more headed goals since his debut in the premier league than anyone else. Not only do we need to cross the ball but also have people in and around him in the box to help free up space or have him one on one with a defender. Under Hodgson we were too passive, being reluctant to cross the ball and not having enough support in the box to allow Benteke to find space or isolate a defender.

I'd even go as far as to say Zaha is holding us back here. If you look at the chances Benteke had (the goal and the times he hit the woodwork) they all came from quick crosses. For the goal Olise didn't hesitate when he received the pass from Gallagher, he immediately shifted the ball onto his left foot and whipped in the cross. I doubt Zaha would have done this. He would have most likely driven the defender into the box and then tried to either cut back or make a shooting chance for himself. This is not playing to Benteke's strengths.

EDIT: I realise it was Mitchell that crossed for the goal. The Olise cross resulted in Benteke hitting the post. But I believe the point still stands. Both were crosses Benteke could attack.

Secondly - it's been said we have less points at this stage in the season than we did last year. Yes this is true. But it's also true we have had a harder start than we did last season. The average position of the teams played this season based on where those teams finished last year is 9th (counting Brentford as 20th as they came up via the playoffs). Last season the average position was 11th (counting Fulham as 20th as they came up via the playoffs and Leeds as 18th as they came up as champions). So far this season we've played 4 of last year's top 6 (3 of which were away from home). At this stage last season we'd played 2 of the top 6 (both away from home).

Finally - We all need to step back and take a deep breath. Yes the results haven't been what our general play has deserved. But did anyone seriously think Vieira would have been able to change our play style so quickly and completely in such a short period of time? I believed it would take time and the start to the season would be hard, given the fixtures we had and the changes to the team. We still need to sort out defending corners, but in open play we look solid at the back and exciting going forward. I believe the results will come. No need to panic, we just need to be patient.

Edited by Skinnii (24 Oct 2021 12.52pm)

Fair point but Benteke scored 1 of 3 clear opportunities (excluding the disallowed goal). Youíve got to be clinical in this league. Wilson had half a chance and scored the same number.

In particular the 1-on-1 opportunity. If Edouard was playing as the central striker and he was through, I think weíd have won.

 

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View Swindy's Profile Swindy Flag Bromley 24 Oct 21 1.59pm Send a Private Message to Swindy Add Swindy as a friend

An excellent post by 'Southnorwoodhill'.
We should definitely have had more points by now but to have only lost to Liverpool and Chelsea in the 9 games played so far is some achievement given the games all told and to be unbeaten in 5 at home is practically unheard of. Arguably last year more games would have been lost against the same opposition.
We now look like scoring and there are goals across the team. Benteke, on yesterday's showing seems to look like he may flourish under PV and on another day may well have had 4 and it is a long time since we have seen 2 strikers playing together, having an understanding.
The playing style and passing is so much more crisp (though I cannot say I am a fan of going backwards too much).
We all knew this would be a work in progress, a new team and a new style but with the possible exception of Chelsea we have been at least in every game.
It will turn (turning draws into wins)and hopefully with a little tweaking (accommodating Eze and Hughes, how long before Butland is 1st choice ?) and maybe in January an upgrade on Ward, hopefully we should be able (with a little more bedding in of this team and style) to enjoy a calm season.

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 24 Oct 21 2.26pm Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

Since Newcastle sat so deep with often 9 behind the ball there were less spaces for Gallagher to make his late runs from midfield.
This lessened the effectiveness of Gallagher, although he still showed his usual tenacity and energy.
Personally I was disappointed to see Olise come off.
He wasn't that involved, but he his work was very influential.
Benteke hit both the bar and post from Olise's crosses and a case could be made for the inclusion of Olise if Benteke continues to start.

 

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View spartakev2's Profile spartakev2 Flag Anerley 24 Oct 21 2.34pm Send a Private Message to spartakev2 Add spartakev2 as a friend

I've just replayed both Arsenal Goals, and the Newcastle goal. While I like Joel Ward, and think he's playing well on the whole, all 3 goals were scored from the left as you look at the goal - where you'd expect him to be - have a look at the goals and see where he is......

 

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View Painter's Profile Painter Flag Croydon 24 Oct 21 2.35pm Send a Private Message to Painter Add Painter as a friend

Originally posted by Mathers

Fair point but Benteke scored 1 of 3 clear opportunities (excluding the disallowed goal). Youíve got to be clinical in this league. Wilson had half a chance and scored the same number.

In particular the 1-on-1 opportunity. If Edouard was playing as the central striker and he was through, I think weíd have won.

You choosing to ignore his chance in the first half, when he hit the side netting from 6ft.

 

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View Rachid Rachid Rachid's Profile Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 24 Oct 21 2.38pm Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Originally posted by doombear


Interesting perspective Rachid. I was reflecting in similar terms last night as well. I like both Andersen and Guehi as they contribute so much to our progressive game and thei9r defensive play on the deck is generally fine. The problem, as you say, is in the air and especially at corners. Having said that we have been very unlucky with some of the goals from corners, e.g.:
- Guaita's firm punch to beyond the penalty area sees Keita score an absolute screamer
- Wilson's goal yesterday; had we scored one like that we would have raved about it.
- the Aubameyang goal very unfortunate to fall as it did.
I'm inclined, though, to give the Andersen/Guehi partnership time as I believe the positives from it will outweigh the negatives.

Iím not ready to see either replaced and have enjoyed their performances as well. I was crowing about Andersen the other week. I agree with your points about misfortune but i donít think they covered themselves in glory with Antonioís and Maupayís goals, Liverpools first two goals speak for themselves as well.

We got in a horrible mess from what I thought was a fairly innocuous free kick in the first half yesterday and it could be itís as much about the coaching and game management as personnel.

The question marks about our defending the penalty area made Vieraís decision to slam into reverse on Monday night a real head scratcher and for all the chat about it being last kick Tierney should have had Arsenal level before then.

 

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View Daddyorc's Profile Daddyorc Flag Long Island City, NY 24 Oct 21 3.09pm Send a Private Message to Daddyorc Add Daddyorc as a friend

Originally posted by spartakev2

I've just replayed both Arsenal Goals, and the Newcastle goal. While I like Joel Ward, and think he's playing well on the whole, all 3 goals were scored from the left as you look at the goal - where you'd expect him to be - have a look at the goals and see where he is......

What?! Players are man marking on corners, he's not there because of the corner. Personally I was annoyed at Ward yesterday because everything slowed down when he had the ball. He took too long on it, and passed backwards when he had open men upfield. But I don't blame him at all for the goal (which by the way was a worldie). Luka's stupid foul was the major cause.

 

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