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December 1 2021 5.46pm

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 01 Nov 21 5.40pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I've no idea what conversation you think we're having, but no one is dissecting the travel plans and carbon footprint of poor people in London. I don't think many of them have access to private planes.

My point is that it's worthless discussing individual contributions to climate change; scaled up, nothing any of us do individually register in any meaningful way - knowing that, why would anyone spend their time pointing out travel plans and how many cars someone owns, if not to distract from the actual conversation.

We can highlight hypocrisy all day long in all walks of life, but a) it's incredibly boring, we're all hypocrites to some extent and b) it does nothing towards actually solving the problem.

It's no coincidence the same crowds who spent decades denying climate change existed at all have now shifted onto moaning about travel plans and whatever else they can find to avoid the actual conversation.

You canít see any connection between those who can afford it flying in private planes tax-free and those who canít paying extra to drive their own cars?

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 01 Nov 21 8.21pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Of course the politicians need to up their game they are in charge. However we were talking about activists. I have made suggestions how they can push their agenda forward without alienating the public, other possibly better suggestions are available but glueing yourself to the M25 is not one of them.

Ultimately whether we are swayed by activists or not the negative outcome will still be the same if little or nothing is done. That's concerning. It's very hard for people to look beyond the here and now. That's true in many areas, but the consequence in this one, could be devastating down the line.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 01 Nov 21 8.27pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Ultimately whether we are swayed by activists or not the negative outcome will still be the same if little or nothing is done. That's concerning. It's very hard for people to look beyond the here and now. That's true in many areas, but the consequence in this one, could be devastating down the line.

It would help if some of the major polluters turned up and accepted responsibility.

 


One more point

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 01 Nov 21 11.02pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

It would help if some of the major polluters turned up and accepted responsibility.

Absolutely.. but even if they don't it's no reason to do nothing. More diplomatic pressure needs to be applied combined with a degree of assistance.

It will likely be Africa that suffers massively first though, if we keep on this path. That's both tremendously sad, and possibly also a reason why some are more than happy to take a wait and see or denial approach.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag Chatham 01 Nov 21 11.15pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Absolutely.. but even if they don't it's no reason to do nothing. More diplomatic pressure needs to be applied combined with a degree of assistance.

It will likely be Africa that suffers massively first though, if we keep on this path. That's both tremendously sad, and possibly also a reason why some are more than happy to take a wait and see or denial approach.

What exactly is the denial approach.
The action we take in the next 20 years or so could be too quick for the earth to get used to. It could well give us worse events.
We are told we have been poisoning it for circa 200 years and it has probably adapted to it. Giving it cold turkey might not be sensible. Personally I think that pushing coal,coke and oil burning nations onto gas would have been a better move. Then from there on to cleaner energy. Gas is the cleanest fossil fuel with not as many damaging emissions as coal and oil. Zero emissions means planting millions of trees to counteract our output. What happens if there are too many trees and greenery all consuming more co2. Could it reduce the amount of co2 in the atmosphere
(Not changed in centuries but never mind) and increase the oxygen levels. How damaging could that be.
I haven't seen one report looking into this just reports saying we need to cut our emissions because we are killing the planet.
Well we could easily kill it with kindness!!

 

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View BlueJay's Profile BlueJay Flag UK 01 Nov 21 11.29pm Send a Private Message to BlueJay Add BlueJay as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What exactly is the denial approach.
The action we take in the next 20 years or so could be too quick for the earth to get used to. It could well give us worse events.
We are told we have been poisoning it for circa 200 years and it has probably adapted to it. Giving it cold turkey might not be sensible. Personally I think that pushing coal,coke and oil burning nations onto gas would have been a better move. Then from there on to cleaner energy. Gas is the cleanest fossil fuel with not as many damaging emissions as coal and oil. Zero emissions means planting millions of trees to counteract our output. What happens if there are too many trees and greenery all consuming more co2. Could it reduce the amount of co2 in the atmosphere
(Not changed in centuries but never mind) and increase the oxygen levels. How damaging could that be.
I haven't seen one report looking into this just reports saying we need to cut our emissions because we are killing the planet.
Well we could easily kill it with kindness!!

There have certainly been improvements over recent decades, and a combination of technology and the will to improve matters no doubt forms part of this. I'm not sure that I quite go with your analogy with the planet as a drug addict that's got used to its fix, but at the same time I suspect our advancements are slow enough that it's not like we're going cold turkey anyway . It may not be possible to even plant enough trees to counteract Co2 [Link] . That;s just one take though of course, I appreciate that.

Your idea of gradually getting countries on board with cleaner energy is a good one, and no doubt in some countries that will be a good model to go with. I can well understand the will to lay blame at certain countries that are slacking, but beyond that I think it's strange that we don't target corporations more, since they're the ones banking bank to the detriment of the planet. Coca cola sells 200,000 plastic bottles per minute. No doubt they're slowly making changes, but it's easy to see how we're trashing the planet to save a few bucks or enrich corporations when there are other approaches that could be followed.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 01 Nov 21 11.42pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst
Could it reduce the amount of co2 in the atmosphere
(Not changed in centuries but never mind) and increase the oxygen levels. How damaging could that be.
I haven't seen one report looking into this just reports saying we need to cut our emissions because we are killing the planet.
Well we could easily kill it with kindness!!

Strange comments

CO2 levels by year

[Link]

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 02 Nov 21 2.11am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

China has actually made great progress in some areas, particularly electric vehicles, electric buses are becoming the new normal in Chinese cities. They pioneered some nifty battery changing processes for buses.

There is increasing pressure on the Chinese govt from the huge and growing middle class who don't want their kids to grow up with pollution etc.

To a certain extent China just see the hypocrisy and virtue signalling of the West on the whole issue.

Certainly China has a long way to go in having a sustainable economy that is not heavily dependent on coal fired electricity generation but it is in their interest so they are not dependent on imported coal

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

When conceited septuagenarians opine , best to ignore.

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 02 Nov 21 2.15am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

as much data out there as you want

[Link]

 


A lie will travel half way around the world before the truth has got it's shoes on.

When conceited septuagenarians opine , best to ignore.

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 02 Nov 21 3.23pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

[Link]

I love this image. BoJo snoozing without a mask next to 95 year old Attenborough.

Good job our leadership is on the ball in these crucial times.

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 02 Nov 21 3.31pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

What exactly is the denial approach.
The action we take in the next 20 years or so could be too quick for the earth to get used to. It could well give us worse events.
We are told we have been poisoning it for circa 200 years and it has probably adapted to it. Giving it cold turkey might not be sensible. Personally I think that pushing coal,coke and oil burning nations onto gas would have been a better move. Then from there on to cleaner energy. Gas is the cleanest fossil fuel with not as many damaging emissions as coal and oil. Zero emissions means planting millions of trees to counteract our output. What happens if there are too many trees and greenery all consuming more co2. Could it reduce the amount of co2 in the atmosphere
(Not changed in centuries but never mind) and increase the oxygen levels. How damaging could that be.
I haven't seen one report looking into this just reports saying we need to cut our emissions because we are killing the planet.
Well we could easily kill it with kindness!!

I guess it would be entering the discussion with something like "None of it as its all bollox made up to make money" and following it up with a load of speculative waffle without even a scrap of scientific basis.

 

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View stayloa's Profile stayloa Flag Beckenham 02 Nov 21 3.50pm Send a Private Message to stayloa Add stayloa as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I guess it would be entering the discussion with something like "None of it as its all bollox made up to make money" and following it up with a load of speculative waffle without even a scrap of scientific basis.

Completely. Regardless of ones political views, it staggers me that anyone can still be burying their head in the sand over climate change and the horrendous impact it is having.

Will me not getting on a plane every year make a difference? No. Will everyone doing that make a difference? Yes. Do goverenment's and big industry need to do a hell of a lot more too though? Yes again.

We're on the brink of disaster though and our children coudl have a miserable existence if nothing is done!

 

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