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March 28 2023 12.29am

CONservative government incompetence.

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 10 Mar 23 6.40pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Asylum is the growth industry of the tory years.

It hardly existed before.

If you want a career move, get into migration.

Another 500 millions today the UK paying for a migrant centre, plus the 70 millions per annum that have resulted in the number of crossings doubled, 120 millions to Rwanda for 200 slots that may never be used.

Think what the accommodation bill will now be and how many people are now employed in this.

Imagine the legal costs going forward of the latest bill.

And all for something that could have been avoided.


The most money is being made by the HR lawyers, thanks to the Labour introduced HRA. What was Mrs Blairís occupation? Oh yes HR Lawyer Mmm

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 10 Mar 23 7.09pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

How many did we previously return? It really didnít work as a deterrent, unless you have statistics to prove otherwise. I know you blame Brexit for this but that really is wide of the mark. You could, of course, apportion blame to the French who make no effort whatsoever to stop them, as a ďpunishment ď for Brexit, how childish of them, going against International law.
Bear in mind whilst still in the EU, we gave millions to the French to shut down Sangatte ( we took many of these, I worked there, processing them). They shut it down and just allowed the migrants to set up another cam along the coast.
Letís put this another way, if we are such a terrible country in the way we deal with migrants, why are these people desperate to get here and not stay in Western Europe?
Several European countries except more ( Thanks for the info Linekar) but they give them next to nothing in handouts, do not provide food, clothing and accommodation on arrival.
Before criticising the UK, perhaps people should delve into how migrants are dealt with elsewhere

Edited by Spiderman (10 Mar 2023 6.46pm)

I included the numbers previously returned above.

Well if it wasnít a deterrent why have the numbers shot up so drastically since 2019 - thatís what Iím asking?

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 10 Mar 23 7.19pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

209 in 2019 only, which is a reasonable percentage of people making the crossing back then.

There were 510 returned in 2015, 362 in 2016 and 314 in 2017. Back in 2008 and 2009 it was over 1000 per year.

Year Transfers in to the UK / Transfers out of the UK
2015 131 ------ 510
2016 558 ------ 362
2017 461 ------ 314

Yes, it was going really well.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Mar 2023 7.21pm)

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 10 Mar 23 7.25pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I included the numbers previously returned above.

Well if it wasnít a deterrent why have the numbers shot up so drastically since 2019 - thatís what Iím asking?

Believe me, the threat of being returned deterred very few, if any. The smugglers were aware that the chances of their customers being removed was slim ( not that they worried) . In all my years of working in Border Force very few were removed under Dublin Convention, for reasons I previously mentioned.
I do not know why numbers have shot up ( nor does anyone else) but we can all have an opinion.
My opinion is, based on my experience and as previously stated, arrivals get far more help here than most other countries, (accommodation, health care, education, weekly money) on arrival so why would you not choose to come here? I would.
The fact that most people seem to ignore is tgat, a genuine refugee would seek a safe haven in a nearby country, they would not travel through all of Europe ( that Utopia) and not want to stay there

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 10 Mar 23 7.25pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I included the numbers previously returned above.

Well if it wasnít a deterrent why have the numbers shot up so drastically since 2019 - thatís what Iím asking?

Presumably because Covid restrictions made other avenues more difficult?

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 10 Mar 23 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Presumably because Covid restrictions made other avenues more difficult?

Donít be silly

 

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View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 11 Mar 23 6.18am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Asylum is the growth industry of the tory years.

It hardly existed before.

If you want a career move, get into migration.

Another 500 millions today the UK paying for a migrant centre, plus the 70 millions per annum that have resulted in the number of crossings doubled, 120 millions to Rwanda for 200 slots that may never be used.

Think what the accommodation bill will now be and how many people are now employed in this.

Imagine the legal costs going forward of the latest bill.

And all for something that could have been avoided.


I don't disagree that the situation is out of hand and the costs are ridiculous.

What I don't agree with is the absurd assertion that it is deliberate.

I have still seen nothing from Sir Kier other than waffle on what Labour would actually do. As usual they only say they wouldn't do what the Government is doing.

I would happily support any party that comes up with a solution.

Edited by HKOwen (11 Mar 2023 6.19am)

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 11 Mar 23 8.08am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Year Transfers in to the UK / Transfers out of the UK
2015 131 ------ 510
2016 558 ------ 362
2017 461 ------ 314

Yes, it was going really well.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (10 Mar 2023 7.21pm)

Which more than anything makes a mockery of the idea that refugees only want to come here - Iím assuming all of those returned here must have been here and tried to travel elsewhere?


 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 11 Mar 23 8.19am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

Believe me, the threat of being returned deterred very few, if any. The smugglers were aware that the chances of their customers being removed was slim ( not that they worried) . In all my years of working in Border Force very few were removed under Dublin Convention, for reasons I previously mentioned.
I do not know why numbers have shot up ( nor does anyone else) but we can all have an opinion.
My opinion is, based on my experience and as previously stated, arrivals get far more help here than most other countries, (accommodation, health care, education, weekly money) on arrival so why would you not choose to come here? I would.
The fact that most people seem to ignore is tgat, a genuine refugee would seek a safe haven in a nearby country, they would not travel through all of Europe ( that Utopia) and not want to stay there

The numbers as to how many removed are there - we donít need to debate it, itís a matter of record.

The fact you claim arrivals get more help here than elsewhere does not explain the fact that many many times more people are attempting the crossing now than 5 years ago - since 2019 weíve gone from hundreds a year to tens of thousands and I donít know of any changes as to what arrivals can expect to receive in that time.

Itís not a fact most people ignore - itís a point which has been made and answered so many times. This is a good answer to it:

 

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 11 Mar 23 8.23am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Presumably because Covid restrictions made other avenues more difficult?

Would make sense, yeah - doesnít explain why it would still be the case now though.

Itís also good to acknowledge that closing down legal routes merely encourages more people to make the crossing and so the government have knowingly contributed to this Ďcrisisí.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 11 Mar 23 8.29am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Would make sense, yeah - doesnít explain why it would still be the case now though.

Itís also good to acknowledge that closing down legal routes merely encourages more people to make the crossing and so the government have knowingly contributed to this Ďcrisisí.

Only guessing but maybe the organised criminal element got more involved/established over that time?
Seems harsh to criticise the government for closing down legal routes when every country did the same.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 11 Mar 23 8.51am Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The numbers as to how many removed are there - we donít need to debate it, itís a matter of record.

The fact you claim arrivals get more help here than elsewhere does not explain the fact that many many times more people are attempting the crossing now than 5 years ago - since 2019 weíve gone from hundreds a year to tens of thousands and I donít know of any changes as to what arrivals can expect to receive in that time.

Itís not a fact most people ignore - itís a point which has been made and answered so many times. This is a good answer to it:

I have had many dealings with JCWI over the years and not always seen eye to eye. She makes some good points, however those crossing the Channel who are from French speaking West Africa, with no family here should be accepted by the French? Not sure where that leaves the Albanians!
When they first get off the boats,they are given food, new clothes ( many laugh as it is not what they want to wear) access to phones ( although most have their own) instant medical care.
When in hotels etc, they are able to have 2 GP visits a week, which is better than most residents.
Does it take too long to process applications? Absolutely but this is not always the HO fault. For example if an arrival has relatives already here and can provide the address, they will be granted temporary admission to that address. If they then move unbeknown to HO and/or choose not to comply with requests for an interview, what do you do?
Those who claim to be minors are placed with Social Services who find foster homes fir them. Many just disappear within days, worrying? Absolutely especially if they are minors. What can be done? Not allowed to detain minors and their applicantions can not be dealt with.
Believe me, having worked for the HO for many years I am not a great fan but I do feel a sense or perspective should be made when HO are totally blamed when there are other factors at play

 

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