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November 28 2021 11.32am

Burnley match thread

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View doombear's Profile doombear Flag Too far from Selhurst Park 21 Nov 21 5.34pm Send a Private Message to doombear Add doombear as a friend

Originally posted by Davepalace707

12 games in we have 16 points, scored 18 with 17 against

Same stage last season? After 12 games 17 points scored 18 with 17 against!


So? More to the point, in the corresponding fixtures last year (excluding Brentford, obviously) we collected just 8 points as opposed to 15 this season. We're on an upward trajectory.

Edited by doombear (21 Nov 2021 9.10pm)

 

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View antipodeagle's Profile antipodeagle Flag Wellington 21 Nov 21 9.56pm Send a Private Message to antipodeagle Add antipodeagle as a friend

Originally posted by southnorwoodhill

Watching again Burnley's late chance in which Guaita did well to get down to and push round, it could easily have gone in and that would have been 4-3. It's one thing to play nice and tidy out from the back football, but when centre halfs cannot defend a basic ball lobbed down the middle then there is a problem. Andersen looks particularly vunerable, and this is not the first time. I would expect there to be a strong focus in training by PV and the coaching staff on this aspect of defending.

Edited by southnorwoodhill (21 Nov 2021 1.30pm)

I don't disagree that Andersen looked very uncomfortable with very predictable balls lobbed over the top. On the other hand he had a significant role in all three of our goals: an excellent assist for the first; I think it was his header which ricocheted back to Guehi for his goal (even though the Beeb said it was Luca), and I'm pretty sure it was his excellent pass that laid it into CG's run to set up Benteke's second.

I guess if his defending was rock-solid and matched his excellent distribution, he would be playing for Man City. Hopefully that defensive part can be coached into him: based on only uninformed assumption, I would think it's easier to coach defensive awareness into someone than the skills to launch attacks from the back,

 

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View Phil’s Barber's Profile Phil’s Barber Flag Crowborough 21 Nov 21 10.07pm Send a Private Message to Phil’s Barber Add Phil’s Barber as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It looks like we missed MacArthur driving us, and our defending was very poor today. Ward had a bit of a mare.
Not sure why he played Ayew ahead of Edoward but there you go.

Milo instead of MacArthur? Why did we sign Hughes?

Yes, Ward did not play well yesterday, gave the ball away a lot, offered absolutely nothing going forward and even his usual strong suit of sound defending deserted him at times too.

 

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View dreamwaverider's Profile dreamwaverider Flag 21 Nov 21 10.23pm Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

My problem is I’m such a glass half full merchant now I think we’re gonna win all our games when actually by the end of the game overall I thought that was another solid point for us. Onwards and upwards.

 

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View Gribbo's Profile Gribbo Flag Bromley 21 Nov 21 11.27pm Send a Private Message to Gribbo Add Gribbo as a friend

Shame Sol can't stick his boots on and do a turn for us. Different class on his day.

 

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View Charles's Profile Charles Flag Forest Hill 22 Nov 21 12.20am Send a Private Message to Charles Add Charles as a friend

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

In the words of Roy Keane.... 'That's his job'..

The guy owes us big time... He's been stealing a living off of us for a few seasons now so it's about time he started repaying us..

Benteke was injured for a while and on his return, because there was no similar reserve for him, the team played in a way which gave him little chance. His scoring rate this year under Roy was pretty good. His goals probably kept us up under FSA and he was excellent at the end of Hodgson's first season

 

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View Wilbraham413's Profile Wilbraham413 Flag 22 Nov 21 3.10am Send a Private Message to Wilbraham413 Add Wilbraham413 as a friend

Originally posted by antipodeagle


I don't disagree that Andersen looked very uncomfortable with very predictable balls lobbed over the top. On the other hand he had a significant role in all three of our goals...

The thing is, Andersen lost us 2 points against BHA, and could/should have lost us 1 point yesterday, giving up the last second free run on goal, plus ridiculously avoiding a red card for that obvious foul earlier. He butchered two relatively simple things to defend.

In the past, our midfield was so dire, we needed CBs who could pass well from the back (like Sakho, when he wasn't making 1-2 brain dead giveaways per match). Now that we have a skilled midfield, do we really need CBs who are unable to defend, but are skilled passers? I would question that.

I think I'd rather have Tomkins in there, who couldn't make a beautiful pass upfield, but could at least defend a simple hoofed ball into our end. I don't know if it's possible to train Andersen to defend better, but after the BHA debacle, my patience for his defensive failures is growing thin.

People used to complain about PVA's imbalance of offense/defense, but Andersen looks even worse than PVA in that regard.

 


2017 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Middlesboro
2018 Jan. (Sako) Palace 1 - 0 Burnley
2019 May (Batshuayi, Batshuayi, OG, Van Aanholt, Townsend) Palace 5 - 3 Bournemouth
2020 Feb. (Van Aanholt) Palace 1 - 0 Newcastle

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View antipodeagle's Profile antipodeagle Flag Wellington 22 Nov 21 4.53am Send a Private Message to antipodeagle Add antipodeagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

The thing is, Andersen lost us 2 points against BHA, and could/should have lost us 1 point yesterday, giving up the last second free run on goal, plus ridiculously avoiding a red card for that obvious foul earlier. He butchered two relatively simple things to defend.

In the past, our midfield was so dire, we needed CBs who could pass well from the back (like Sakho, when he wasn't making 1-2 brain dead giveaways per match). Now that we have a skilled midfield, do we really need CBs who are unable to defend, but are skilled passers? I would question that.

I think I'd rather have Tomkins in there, who couldn't make a beautiful pass upfield, but could at least defend a simple hoofed ball into our end. I don't know if it's possible to train Andersen to defend better, but after the BHA debacle, my patience for his defensive failures is growing thin.

People used to complain about PVA's imbalance of offense/defense, but Andersen looks even worse than PVA in that regard.

That's a little harsh. Given the style of play and the requirements on the defence to play it out pretty much every time rather than hoofing it, I don't think one loss of control is too bad: if it was Kouyate there it would be 3 or 4 a game. And we have barely conceded from open play all season.

That said, for the last few seasons Tomkins has been our best ball-playing CB by some distance (IMO), except maybe Cahill, and has a fairly decent range of passing on him. But I wouldn't dispense with Andersen just yet. I'm more concerned around an adequate replacement for JMac while he's injured, as Luka and Kouyate don't give us the same ability to harry and press and get on the front foot. I think this (and the number of needless free kicks) contributed to the amount of balls Burnley were able to send into our box.

 

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View viveasheagle's Profile viveasheagle Flag perth 22 Nov 21 5.06am Send a Private Message to viveasheagle Add viveasheagle as a friend

Originally posted by PatrickA

Our playing out from the back with ball playing defenders is allowing us to create more chances and should continue to accrue more points in future games.
However, I don’t see our record on conceding from set pieces,crosses and balls over the top necessarily improving.
Anderson could easily have been sent off yesterday, continually failed to clear his lines with weak headers and clearances falling to the edge of the box and was culpable for the last minute chance for Vydra.
On the other hand he had an involvement in our goals and is a very good footballer with a good range of passing.
Similarly Guehi has many footballing attributes but is not a dominant central defender and our goalkeeper , whilst a good shot stopper, does not dominate his penalty area.
This leads me conclude that our vulnerability will continue in this area, but I believe the upsides will outweigh the downsides.

This is the way i am seeing us defensively this season as well. Although i am a fan of Guaita I think he should have come for some of the crosses that lead to their goals. The first one he was blocked in and probably could not have come, but Burnley were generally putting in high crosses he had time to get to but knowing he would stay on his line. This would have taken pressure off the defenders. Kouyate got out manouvered for the first goal today hence why Mee got his header in.

 

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View antipodeagle's Profile antipodeagle Flag Wellington 22 Nov 21 5.17am Send a Private Message to antipodeagle Add antipodeagle as a friend

Originally posted by viveasheagle

This is the way i am seeing us defensively this season as well. Although i am a fan of Guaita I think he should have come for some of the crosses that lead to their goals. The first one he was blocked in and probably could not have come, but Burnley were generally putting in high crosses he had time to get to but knowing he would stay on his line. This would have taken pressure off the defenders. Kouyate got out manouvered for the first goal today hence why Mee got his header in.

TBF it was a very good and well timed leap from Mee, and Kouyate was back-pedalling so was never going to get the same momentum on his jump. Which is why I don't understand why we don't man-to-man mark their biggest threats like Mee, Tarkowski and Wood. Or at least start with someone towards the furthest corner of the 6 year box to cover their runs. I'm constantly bemused when teams don't mark Benteke for our set pieces. 99 times out of a 100 it's him we aim for, yet he quite often finds himself unmarked.

 

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View Omph's Profile Omph Flag Liverpool 22 Nov 21 6.16am Send a Private Message to Omph Add Omph as a friend

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

The thing is, Andersen lost us 2 points against BHA, and could/should have lost us 1 point yesterday, giving up the last second free run on goal, plus ridiculously avoiding a red card for that obvious foul earlier. He butchered two relatively simple things to defend.

In the past, our midfield was so dire, we needed CBs who could pass well from the back (like Sakho, when he wasn't making 1-2 brain dead giveaways per match). Now that we have a skilled midfield, do we really need CBs who are unable to defend, but are skilled passers? I would question that.

I think I'd rather have Tomkins in there, who couldn't make a beautiful pass upfield, but could at least defend a simple hoofed ball into our end. I don't know if it's possible to train Andersen to defend better, but after the BHA debacle, my patience for his defensive failures is growing thin.

People used to complain about PVA's imbalance of offense/defense, but Andersen looks even worse than PVA in that regard.

Harsh

Think Tomkins could well have struggled in that spot. Andersen was exposed this time around for lack of pace and can't see that Tomkins is any quicker. We don't just play out from the back but we also play a fairly high line and most any CB is going to struggle on the turn against a CF who is running through.

The Tomkins we saw played in a rigid 4 in the lowest of low blocks - very hard to tell how he'd have coped imo.

 

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View Gary St.Andrews's Profile Gary St.Andrews Flag Kenley 22 Nov 21 8.10am Send a Private Message to Gary St.Andrews Add Gary St.Andrews as a friend

Originally posted by Wilbraham413

The thing is, Andersen lost us 2 points against BHA, and could/should have lost us 1 point yesterday, giving up the last second free run on goal, plus ridiculously avoiding a red card for that obvious foul earlier. He butchered two relatively simple things to defend.

In the past, our midfield was so dire, we needed CBs who could pass well from the back (like Sakho, when he wasn't making 1-2 brain dead giveaways per match). Now that we have a skilled midfield, do we really need CBs who are unable to defend, but are skilled passers? I would question that.

I think I'd rather have Tomkins in there, who couldn't make a beautiful pass upfield, but could at least defend a simple hoofed ball into our end. I don't know if it's possible to train Andersen to defend better, but after the BHA debacle, my patience for his defensive failures is growing thin.

People used to complain about PVA's imbalance of offense/defense, but Andersen looks even worse than PVA in that regard.

I think on Saturday the conditions were pretty tough and the ball was swirling about in the wind and rain, very tough to bring the ball under control when you are getting pressed by their forward. The Brighton one was a balls up, but overall I think he has been world class.

 

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