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January 29 2022 12.54pm

Ghislaine Maxwell trial

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Jan 22 11.34pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No specifics.

Just disingenuous BS.

Personally I regard a person who wants to see all religion restricted and basically removed and someone promoting authoritarianism over and above what we're seen....seemingly gleefully hoping for it over a vaccine status.

Those are specifics that people can recognise from your posts on here.

That's more extreme than anything I've come across. What's different from what the dissentient right say now that wasn't said in the right's past.....nothing.


Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Jan 2022 6.45pm)

When making a general observation of your lifelong perceptions giving specifics is hardly on the agenda.

I have repeatedly corrected the assertion that I want to restrict religion and see it removed. I want to free people from being presented with religion when they don't want it, but to ensure that those who do, can participate freely and fully.

I want all religions to be free to use their places of worship, but not in places shared with others. Like schools or the public square. As we, via the state, have the duty to educate all children in their civil responsibilities that means no religion ought to be involved in any way.

That's neither authoritarian nor extreme. It's simple common sense. As is the need for everyone to be able to prove their vaccination status in a world which increasingly demands it. There is nothing to fear, so those who object must have another agenda. I welcome it as a sensible way of quickly ensuring that the places I go are safe. Easy entry to places to eat, be entertained or board a plane? What's not to like? Let's restore as much normality as possible as soon as possible.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 04 Jan 22 12.59pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

While I am personally an agnostic I pride myself on my knowledge of Christianity and view that as a pre-requisite to being a reasonably educated Englishman....nay British or European.

It is our culture and it is our history and I don't take it lightly nor belittle or look to diminish that. Indeed, if you don't understand it, you don't really correctly understand much of our past.

I certainly view attempts to remove it from view as an attack on our culture.

It is clear that religion's fall from public life has seen an equal fall in our morality, community and resulted in adding to our greater individual atomization.

As Nietzsche was right to fear, in killing God, its replacement in the godless may certainly be self congratulatory but in reality it's a pathetically bad downgrade.

As Blur once famously opined, 'modern life is....'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2022 9.21pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 Jan 22 9.04pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

While I am personally an agnostic I pride myself on my knowledge of Christianity and view that as a pre-requisite to being a reasonably educated Englishmen....nay British or European.

It is our culture and it is our history and I don't take it lightly nor belittle or look to diminish that. Indeed, if you don't understand it, you don't really correctly understand much of our past.

I certainly view attempts to remove it from view as an attack on our culture.

It is clear that religion's fall from public life has seen an equal fall in our morality, community and resulted in adding to our greater individual atomization.

As Nietzsche was right to fear, in killing God, its replacement in the godless may certainly be self congratulatory but in reality it's a pathetically bad downgrade.

As Blur once famously opined, 'modern life is....'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2022 1.44pm)

There is much that I agree with here, but I think that I am being misunderstood. I don't want religion removed from view. I want it being available to be viewed, if people want to view it.

I also want its contribution to our culture taught to ALL schoolchildren. As that is primarily the Christian faith this is especially important, and the primary reason I think no faith ought to be involved in the running of any school.

I want all our children to learn how to be proud British citizens.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 04 Jan 22 9.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There is much that I agree with here, but I think that I am being misunderstood. I don't want religion removed from view. I want it being available to be viewed, if people want to view it.

I also want its contribution to our culture taught to ALL schoolchildren. As that is primarily the Christian faith this is especially important, and the primary reason I think no faith ought to be involved in the running of any school.

I want all our children to learn how to be proud British citizens.

If I were a Muslim I think I'd want that to be the primary religion and history I'd want my child to know.

I can see an argument for faithless schools, just not one for forcing that onto people who want faith ones.

This is part of the problem....you can't say that you want diversity and inclusion (something I regard as b0llocks) but then say that you want a standardised system where everyone is taught the same.....which in reality is anti diversity and anti inclusion.

Religion is as much identity as ethnicity is for many people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2022 9.28pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Grumbles's Profile Grumbles 04 Jan 22 10.19pm Send a Private Message to Grumbles Add Grumbles as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Religion is as much identity as ethnicity is for many people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2022 9.28pm)

This was partially the point i was trying to make prior to this site's censorship. It is not just religion but even more the violence between sects within a religion, just look at the Irish as well as the Muslims.

It depends on the point of view.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 05 Jan 22 1.15am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Grumbles

This was partially the point i was trying to make prior to this site's censorship. It is not just religion but even more the violence between sects within a religion, just look at the Irish as well as the Muslims.

It depends on the point of view.


The religious aspect being just one factor for the identity difference motivating that violence.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 22 7.59pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If I were a Muslim I think I'd want that to be the primary religion and history I'd want my child to know.

I can see an argument for faithless schools, just not one for forcing that onto people who want faith ones.

This is part of the problem....you can't say that you want diversity and inclusion (something I regard as b0llocks) but then say that you want a standardised system where everyone is taught the same.....which in reality is anti diversity and anti inclusion.

Religion is as much identity as ethnicity is for many people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2022 9.28pm)

I expect I would as well. Nothing I am suggesting stops that. Their children can attend Mosque, religious classes and be taught at home. What I want is for them is not to be excluded from learning about British values and culture. I want every child to be taught these things, hopefully in the company of children from other cultures.

This ought to take place now, as it is required by the national curriculum. However, any faith based school, and especially one where religious leaders are actively involved, is likely to lack commitment and face a conflict of interest. So I think they all need to be consigned to history and replaced by a strong message from us, the majority viewpoint. I want children to receive the messages from their parents too, and then be encouraged to think for themselves.

I also want religion to be taught at school, but not a religion to be taught at school. I want all children to learn about the good, and the bad, impacts of religion and about all the major religions, their development and their contexts.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 05 Jan 22 10.09pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I expect I would as well. Nothing I am suggesting stops that. Their children can attend Mosque, religious classes and be taught at home. What I want is for them is not to be excluded from learning about British values and culture. I want every child to be taught these things, hopefully in the company of children from other cultures.

This ought to take place now, as it is required by the national curriculum. However, any faith based school, and especially one where religious leaders are actively involved, is likely to lack commitment and face a conflict of interest. So I think they all need to be consigned to history and replaced by a strong message from us, the majority viewpoint. I want children to receive the messages from their parents too, and then be encouraged to think for themselves.

I also want religion to be taught at school, but not a religion to be taught at school. I want all children to learn about the good, and the bad, impacts of religion and about all the major religions, their development and their contexts.


Your approach sounds similar to the French one.

A school system that excludes faith schools within a state system is a valid argument, even if I only partially agree with it...I can't say that Christian state schools, which are the only ones I know about, are anything other than an improvement to the system.

Anyway, state schools are one thing but when it comes to private ones....that's one sticky road to travel down.

I just don't think it's a realistic argument from where we are...this was an argument from decades ago.....your 'global village' politics has created a problem that you can't realistically solve without conflict.

Your obvious position of wanting to 'move religion' away from the centre of communities might work with the ever compromising Christians but it's just not going to swing elsewhere.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2022 10.30pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 05 Jan 22 10.12pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


Another loophole appears.

[Link]

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Jan 22 10.16pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Another loophole appears.

[Link]

I read that interview and that was my first reaction. This guy clearly should not have been on the jury if he was molested.

 


One more point

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View Beanyboysmd's Profile Beanyboysmd Flag 06 Jan 22 12.12am Send a Private Message to Beanyboysmd Add Beanyboysmd as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

While I am personally an agnostic I pride myself on my knowledge of Christianity and view that as a pre-requisite to being a reasonably educated Englishman....nay British or European.

It is our culture and it is our history and I don't take it lightly nor belittle or look to diminish that. Indeed, if you don't understand it, you don't really correctly understand much of our past.

I certainly view attempts to remove it from view as an attack on our culture.

It is clear that religion's fall from public life has seen an equal fall in our morality, community and resulted in adding to our greater individual atomization.

As Nietzsche was right to fear, in killing God, its replacement in the godless may certainly be self congratulatory but in reality it's a pathetically bad downgrade.

As Blur once famously opined, 'modern life is....'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2022 9.21pm)

Our culture and history are important but that is an everchanging thing. 200 years ago, no Scot had any attachment to Tartan, bagpipes or clans. To them it was just stupid northern balls that had no bearing on the modern day, it wasnt until some guy wanted to impress a new king and he fell in love with highland culture that Scots had any attatchment to that stuff. Suddenly Scotland has new and improved culture and history. It evolves. Its only ifg you believe that culture and history should stop where it is and not move again that it would be relevant. Who knows what crazy nonsense from now will be considered important British traditions. In 200 years from now it could be someone like you, shouting from your space pods that lefties are trying to take away your traditional Grime music or boxing day premiership football.

The future is crazy and you will only drive yourself crazy trying to stop it from happening.

Also worrying about what society will do once they stop worshipping god is silly, the most successful countries in history became successful by thinking about what's around or in front of them, not looking up...

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 06 Jan 22 12.28am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

Our culture and history are important but that is an everchanging thing. 200 years ago, no Scot had any attachment to Tartan, bagpipes or clans. To them it was just stupid northern balls that had no bearing on the modern day, it wasnt until some guy wanted to impress a new king and he fell in love with highland culture that Scots had any attatchment to that stuff. Suddenly Scotland has new and improved culture and history. It evolves. Its only ifg you believe that culture and history should stop where it is and not move again that it would be relevant. Who knows what crazy nonsense from now will be considered important British traditions. In 200 years from now it could be someone like you, shouting from your space pods that lefties are trying to take away your traditional Grime music or boxing day premiership football.

The future is crazy and you will only drive yourself crazy trying to stop it from happening.

Also worrying about what society will do once they stop worshipping god is silly, the most successful countries in history became successful by thinking about what's around or in front of them, not looking up...

You are pitching up strawmen here on traditionalism.

Do we really want to have this tired debate on history....surely you know many Scotsman still couldn't give a fig about tartan, bagpipes or clans and how important they were to their past is far removed from what most think.....it's a debate for historians and like most re-readings of history differs depending upon the person.

In terms of the society's relationship to religion, my point is that its replacement is a downgrade and quite a serious failure....and not a reflection upon what is and isn't true.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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