NHS workers required to be vaccinated....

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HKOwen Hong Kong 23 Jan 22 8.59am
Emily Thornberry just confirmed on Sky News that Labour policy on this is same as Conservative, presumably this will lead to direct conflict between Labour and the unions representing NHS workers. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 23 Jan 22 8.59am

Emily Thornberry just confirmed on Sky News that Labour policy on this is same as Conservative, presumably this will lead to direct conflict between Labour and the unions representing NHS workers.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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cryrst The garden of England 23 Jan 22 9.21am
The irony about this vaccine process was a nurse on the news saying how they have been saving covid victims lives and are in danger by doing this so back off. She hasn't had the vaccine but says what she says about the dangers. Geez!
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cryrst

The garden of England 23 Jan 22 9.21am

The irony about this vaccine process was a nurse on the news saying how they have been saving covid victims lives and are in danger by doing this so back off. She hasn't had the vaccine but says what she says about the dangers. Geez!

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Matov 23 Jan 22 2.03pm
Originally posted by cryrst The irony about this vaccine process was a nurse on the news saying how they have been saving covid victims lives and are in danger by doing this so back off. She hasn't had the vaccine but says what she says about the dangers. Geez! It does have a rather dark irony to it that now we are coming out of the other side, the very people we were all encouraged to stand outside and clap for and endure endless tic-toc videos of dancing and prancing about are now up for the chop. Personally, I suspect it will all be quietly shelved. Given the disproportionate amount of ethnic minorities who have refused to have the vaccine then the optics of it all don't look great (and it's been interesting to see the very Pro-Vac BBC seemingly only interview white NHS workers although I concede I have not seen a huge amount of coverage). And on a wider note, once again due to the ethnic component, suspect all this vaccination divide stuff to quietly fade away over the coming months. In fact, probably a narrative developing saying how the British thing to do is to allow people to make an informed choice as opposed to those dastardly Europeans forcing the needle on to people. People in Government want Covid to go away now. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jan 22 2.03pm

Originally posted by cryrst

It does have a rather dark irony to it that now we are coming out of the other side, the very people we were all encouraged to stand outside and clap for and endure endless tic-toc videos of dancing and prancing about are now up for the chop.

Personally, I suspect it will all be quietly shelved. Given the disproportionate amount of ethnic minorities who have refused to have the vaccine then the optics of it all don't look great (and it's been interesting to see the very Pro-Vac BBC seemingly only interview white NHS workers although I concede I have not seen a huge amount of coverage).

And on a wider note, once again due to the ethnic component, suspect all this vaccination divide stuff to quietly fade away over the coming months. In fact, probably a narrative developing saying how the British thing to do is to allow people to make an informed choice as opposed to those dastardly Europeans forcing the needle on to people.

People in Government want Covid to go away now.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Stirlingsays Online 23 Jan 22 2.33pm
After all those whining about the unvaccinated reducing NHS staff resources this is almost comical self harming. If they do sack them no doubt they would be rehired once the insanity fades away. About as nuts as anything else done over these last two years. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

23 Jan 22 2.33pm

After all those whining about the unvaccinated reducing NHS staff resources this is almost comical self harming.

If they do sack them no doubt they would be rehired once the insanity fades away.

About as nuts as anything else done over these last two years.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov 23 Jan 22 2.53pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays After all those whining about the unvaccinated reducing NHS staff resources this is almost comical self harming. If they do sack them no doubt they would be rehired once the insanity fades away. About as nuts as anything else done over these last two years. Absolutely. Now I am hardly a rainbow flag-waver for the NHS and would happily see the entire thing ripped up and started all over again (the guiding principles have merit but it has turned into a behemoth that is simply not fit for purpose) but the idea that after the last couple of years and the pressures people have been put under, only to now sack them for not taking a vaccine for a disease that is about as dangerous as a nasty cold is beyond parody. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

23 Jan 22 2.53pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

After all those whining about the unvaccinated reducing NHS staff resources this is almost comical self harming.

If they do sack them no doubt they would be rehired once the insanity fades away.

About as nuts as anything else done over these last two years.

Absolutely. Now I am hardly a rainbow flag-waver for the NHS and would happily see the entire thing ripped up and started all over again (the guiding principles have merit but it has turned into a behemoth that is simply not fit for purpose) but the idea that after the last couple of years and the pressures people have been put under, only to now sack them for not taking a vaccine for a disease that is about as dangerous as a nasty cold is beyond parody.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Stirlingsays Online 23 Jan 22 3.04pm
Originally posted by Matov Absolutely. Now I am hardly a rainbow flag-waver for the NHS and would happily see the entire thing ripped up and started all over again (the guiding principles have merit but it has turned into a behemoth that is simply not fit for purpose) but the idea that after the last couple of years and the pressures people have been put under, only to now sack them for not taking a vaccine for a disease that is about as dangerous as a nasty cold is beyond parody. Agreed on all points. And what the feck does the rainbow flag have to do with the NHS? Another nonsensical nonsense. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

23 Jan 22 3.04pm

Originally posted by Matov

Agreed on all points.

And what the feck does the rainbow flag have to do with the NHS? Another nonsensical nonsense.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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becky over the moon 23 Jan 22 4.57pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays After all those whining about the unvaccinated reducing NHS staff resources this is almost comical self harming. If they do sack them no doubt they would be rehired once the insanity fades away. About as nuts as anything else done over these last two years. They'll just use the same ex-staff through an agency, where they cannot enforce vaccination, at double what they were paying them as staff this has apparently already happened in other 'places of work' A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 23 Jan 22 4.57pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

After all those whining about the unvaccinated reducing NHS staff resources this is almost comical self harming.

If they do sack them no doubt they would be rehired once the insanity fades away.

About as nuts as anything else done over these last two years.

They'll just use the same ex-staff through an agency, **where they cannot enforce vaccination**, at double what they were paying them as staff

**this has apparently already happened in other 'places of work'**

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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cryrst The garden of England 23 Jan 22 5.09pm
Originally posted by Matov It does have a rather dark irony to it that now we are coming out of the other side, the very people we were all encouraged to stand outside and clap for and endure endless tic-toc videos of dancing and prancing about are now up for the chop. Personally, I suspect it will all be quietly shelved. Given the disproportionate amount of ethnic minorities who have refused to have the vaccine then the optics of it all don't look great (and it's been interesting to see the very Pro-Vac BBC seemingly only interview white NHS workers although I concede I have not seen a huge amount of coverage). And on a wider note, once again due to the ethnic component, suspect all this vaccination divide stuff to quietly fade away over the coming months. In fact, probably a narrative developing saying how the British thing to do is to allow people to make an informed choice as opposed to those dastardly Europeans forcing the needle on to people. People in Government want Covid to go away now. So nhs staff don't beleive the science behind the vaccine so won't have it. The very same staff who trust the science behind every drug they use on their patients without questioning it. That's also quite ironic.
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cryrst

The garden of England 23 Jan 22 5.09pm

Originally posted by Matov

People in Government want Covid to go away now.

So nhs staff don't beleive the science behind the vaccine so won't have it.
The very same staff who trust the science behind every drug they use on their patients without questioning it.
That's also quite ironic.

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Stirlingsays Online 23 Jan 22 5.19pm
Originally posted by cryrst So nhs staff don't beleive the science behind the vaccine so won't have it. The very same staff who trust the science behind every drug they use on their patients without questioning it. That's also quite ironic. I'd imagine most drug issuing professionals would trust the drugs they issue as they are long standing....that said many drugs have side affects. There are of course multiple reasons why someone might not want these vaccines, from the 'pro vaccine, pro choice' principle to....well the list is pretty varied. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jan 2022 5.21pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

23 Jan 22 5.19pm

Originally posted by cryrst

I'd imagine most drug issuing professionals would trust the drugs they issue as they are long standing....that said many drugs have side affects. There are of course multiple reasons why someone might not want these vaccines, from the 'pro vaccine, pro choice' principle to....well the list is pretty varied.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jan 2022 5.21pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay UK 23 Jan 22 5.19pm
The sensible and patien-centric move would've been to get the vaccine long until, especially against variants where it made a significant different. As if happens though Omicron is somewhat more transmissible so is frequently picked up by the vaccinated too. So while I do think it's self centred of them not to have been vaccinated in the first place, at this stage in the game I'm not sure it would make a significant difference and would rather have people working at a time when we clearly need them than told they can't go to work.
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BlueJay

UK 23 Jan 22 5.19pm

The sensible and patien-centric move would've been to get the vaccine long until, especially against variants where it made a significant different. As if happens though Omicron is somewhat more transmissible so is frequently picked up by the vaccinated too. So while I do think it's self centred of them not to have been vaccinated in the first place, at this stage in the game I'm not sure it would make a significant difference and would rather have people working at a time when we clearly need them than told they can't go to work.

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Stirlingsays Online 23 Jan 22 5.26pm
Originally posted by BlueJay The sensible and patien-centric move would've been to get the vaccine long until, especially against variants where it made a significant different. As if happens though Omicron is somewhat more transmissible so is frequently picked up by the vaccinated too. So while I do think it's self centred of them not to have been vaccinated in the first place, at this stage in the game I'm not sure it would make a significant difference and would rather have people working at a time when we clearly need them than told they can't go to work. God forbid that people make self centred decisions over their own health. Do most people give blood? Are most people donating to food banks? Moral communism. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays Online

23 Jan 22 5.26pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

God forbid that people make self centred decisions over their own health.

Do most people give blood? Are most people donating to food banks?

Moral communism.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 22 7.35pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays God forbid that people make self centred decisions over their own health. Do most people give blood? Are most people donating to food banks? Moral communism. Deciding whether to donate blood or to food banks are indeed simple self centred decisions. That isn't true of anyone who is in a front-line role of the NHS deciding not to be vaccinated. That decision has implications beyond their personal health. If that was all that was involved then no action would be either needed, or considered. Once the benefits had been explained it would be solely down to individual choice. An unvaccinated health care worker is a potential hazard both to others and the smooth running of the NHS. That's the organisation's determination. Whatever those who disagree think is pretty irrelevant. Now, of course, the NHS and the government face the inevitable dilemma which is created whenever anything is made mandatory. If the result is worse than the consequences of backing down, then they may well soften the requirements. This is a least bad choice. It's a lose, lose scenario. As giving any kind of comfort, or moral justification, to the anti-vaxers delivers a completely unacceptable message to me, I trust something can be done whereby we don't lose those who are capable of being convinced, but remain affected by misinformation, and sideline those who are either spreading the misinformation or just being damn selfish. The latter have no place in the NHS anyway. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 22 7.35pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

God forbid that people make self centred decisions over their own health.

Do most people give blood? Are most people donating to food banks?

Moral communism.

Deciding whether to donate blood or to food banks are indeed simple self centred decisions.

That isn't true of anyone who is in a front-line role of the NHS deciding not to be vaccinated. That decision has implications beyond their personal health. If that was all that was involved then no action would be either needed, or considered. Once the benefits had been explained it would be solely down to individual choice.

An unvaccinated health care worker is a potential hazard both to others and the smooth running of the NHS. That's the organisation's determination. Whatever those who disagree think is pretty irrelevant.

Now, of course, the NHS and the government face the inevitable dilemma which is created whenever anything is made mandatory. If the result is worse than the consequences of backing down, then they may well soften the requirements. This is a least bad choice. It's a lose, lose scenario.

As giving any kind of comfort, or moral justification, to the anti-vaxers delivers a completely unacceptable message to me, I trust something can be done whereby we don't lose those who are capable of being convinced, but remain affected by misinformation, and sideline those who are either spreading the misinformation or just being damn selfish. The latter have no place in the NHS anyway.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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