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August 11 2022 9.13pm

Government steals 2.5 billion from Abramovich

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 26 May 22 3.15pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

A civilised society should not thieve people's property, no matter rich or poor, without due process.

A big raspberry from me.

Here basically you are saying because someone is Russian, you can help yourself to their assets.

I don't agree that the Government have stolen RA's assets.

His assets have been frozen ( as opposed to being seized as proceeds of crime ) as part of the sanctions imposed on oligarchs that have been identified as Putin's ' enablers '. Not all Russians in the UK have been treated in this way.

This is in keeping with the decision by numerous governments that have imposed such sanctions as non military steps in trying to find a way to stop Putin's war mongering. So there's your '' due process ''.

In a '' civilised society '' countries would not invade their neighbours.

The decision to give the Chelsea sale proceeds to charity was made by RA.

 


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View PalazioVecchio's Profile PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 26 May 22 3.17pm Send a Private Message to PalazioVecchio Add PalazioVecchio as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

so all the reports about his Putin cronyism are wrong?

all the video footage of his armed bodyguards is only imaginary also.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 May 22 3.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by HKOwen

so all the reports about his Putin cronyism are wrong?

I doubt it.

So is that what we do now? Steal the money from those we don't like?

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 May 22 3.20pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

I don't agree that the Government have stolen RA's assets.

His assets have been frozen ( as opposed to being seized as proceeds of crime ) as part of the sanctions imposed on oligarchs that have been identified as Putin's ' enablers '. Not all Russians in the UK have been treated in this way.

This is in keeping with the decision by numerous governments that have imposed such sanctions as non military steps in trying to find a way to stop Putin's war mongering. So there's your '' due process ''.

In a '' civilised society '' countries would not invade their neighbours.

The decision to give the Chelsea sale proceeds to charity was made by RA.


So when are the assets of Saudi being 'frozen' then? Seems like they can invade countries they don't like for years and nothing you state here happened to them.

I don't think that's a valid justification given how selective it is.

As for stealing money as a method of bringing Putin to the negotiating table.....I see that as another unreality considering the US and the EU have just flooded the Ukraine's war chest to carry on the war.

The only result has to make everyone poorer, while prolonging a war against a better armed opponent.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 May 2022 3.24pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 26 May 22 3.26pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I agree with everyone saying that how the government has behaved in relation to anything Russian has been quite incredible.

I honestly never thought I'd see the day where an 'English' parliament would just openly justify stealing money and persecuting people by association.

That doesn't mean that I don't think that Russian oligarchs aren't awash with dirty money and fully corrupt themselves. However, they had been welcomed here along with all the rest of the corrupt classes from Saudi and everywhere else. London has been and continues to be a dirty laundering location for most of the foreign rich....whored out to the fullest pockets....but now it's only if we like you apparently.

If we are suddenly developing a selective conscience we should have told them to bugger off not stolen what they came here with. Just as we should tell all the dirty and corrupt money in the city to go forth and multiply.

But this is the neo liberal system...the services society where you off shore all manufacturing to the cheapest option and rely upon a global elite and its merchant classes to palm their way to leave you poor and them as an untouchably rich superclass.

But I digress.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 May 2022 1.07pm)

So, for the sake of clarity, you do not support the sanctions being imposed on those oligarchs identified as Putin's ' enablers ' as a means to putting an end to the war in the Ukraine ?

London is known as the main global money laundering centre. Separating the ' good ' from the ' bad ' can be quite difficult. And not enough was being done to do that. I see positive change happening in that field but it's similar to, and related to, the war on drugs. It never ends.

 


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View W12's Profile W12 26 May 22 3.27pm Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

So, for the sake of clarity, you do not support the sanctions being imposed on those oligarchs identified as Putin's ' enablers ' as a means to putting an end to the war in the Ukraine ?

London is known as the main global money laundering centre. Separating the ' good ' from the ' bad ' can be quite difficult. And not enough was being done to do that. I see positive change happening in that field but it's similar to, and related to, the war on drugs. It never ends.

By who and via what process?

 

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 26 May 22 3.33pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


So when are the assets of Saudi being 'frozen' then? Seems like they can invade countries they don't like for years and nothing you state here happened to them.

I don't think that's a valid justification given how selective it is.

As for stealing money as a method of bringing Putin to the negotiating table.....I see that as another unreality considering the US and the EU have just flooded the Ukraine's war chest to carry on the war.

The only result has to make everyone poorer, while prolonging a war against a better armed opponent.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 May 2022 3.24pm)

No idea - I thought we were debating the RA situation.

I see assets frozen - not stolen. Whether the sanctions tactics work remain to be seen, but it's just one way of trying to deter Putin from prolonging the war. And the economic support given to Ukraine...well yes, it will prolong the war if they are given the means to defend themselves rather than roll over and let Putin have his way.

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 May 22 3.37pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

So, for the sake of clarity, you do not support the sanctions being imposed on those oligarchs identified as Putin's ' enablers ' as a means to putting an end to the war in the Ukraine ?

London is known as the main global money laundering centre. Separating the ' good ' from the ' bad ' can be quite difficult. And not enough was being done to do that. I see positive change happening in that field but it's similar to, and related to, the war on drugs. It never ends.

I think I was quite clear. I don't support selective stealing based upon which dictator is out of favour.

I don't support the actions that you apparently appear to think are successful strategies in 'putting an end to the war'. In fact I think they do the exact opposite by 'enabling' a cold war generally and making the Ukraine's future financial situation practically impossible.....it enriches one set of corrupt oligarchs for another while we fight to the last conscripted Ukrainian.

I would support these actions (kicking them out, not stealing their money) if they were applied against global money laundering in London in general. However, in practice they are part of a disastrous approach to this war.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 May 2022 3.47pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 26 May 22 3.42pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by W12

By who and via what process?

[Link]

 


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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 26 May 22 3.43pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

No idea - I thought we were debating the RA situation.

Let me enlighten you then, we haven't and we won't.

Originally posted by NEILLO

I see assets frozen - not stolen. Whether the sanctions tactics work remain to be seen, but it's just one way of trying to deter Putin from prolonging the war. And the economic support given to Ukraine...well yes, it will prolong the war if they are given the means to defend themselves rather than roll over and let Putin have his way.

Like Iran's assets were 'frozen' you mean?

In reality do you seriously think these assets are just left alone in a bank account? If someone steals an item from your house and keeps it....is it 'frozen' not stolen I wonder? As he could of course give it back couldn't he.

While we print money and inflate away making the poorest poorer what other wars are we going to intervene in then and stand up for this global Policeman morality?

Just the ones the media talk about?

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 May 2022 3.46pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 26 May 22 3.48pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think I was quite clear. I don't support selective stealing based upon which dictator is out of favour.

I don't support the actions that you apparently appear to think are successful strategies in 'putting an end to the war'. In fact I think they do the exact opposite by 'enabling' a cold war generally and making the Ukraine's future financial situation practically impossible.....it enriches one set of corrupt oligarchs for another while we fight to the last conscripted Ukrainian.

I would support these actions if they were applied against global money laundering in London in general. However, in practice they are part of a disastrous approach to this war.

Then we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Sanctions are indeed applied to countries, corporations, individuals etc., as on ongoing fight against money laundering and financial crime in general.

So, stripping away sanctions and economic support for Ukraine, what is the solution given that you don't believe those actions to be effective ?

 


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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 26 May 22 3.55pm Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Like Iran's assets were 'frozen' you mean?

In reality do you seriously think these assets are just left alone in a bank account? If someone steals an item from your house and keeps it....is it 'frozen' not stolen I wonder? As he could of course give it back couldn't he.

While we print money and inflate away making the poorest poorer what other wars are we going to intervene in then and stand up for this global Policeman morality?

Just the ones the media talk about?

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 May 2022 3.46pm)

Yes, that's exactly what they are. I worked in the banking industry for over 40 years so I have seen this in action.

You seem to be confusing freezing assets with stealing them.

 


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