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October 2 2022 11.07pm

Conceding from corners, again

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View pssguy's Profile pssguy Flag 09 Aug 22 10.00pm Send a Private Message to pssguy Add pssguy as a friend


This week's Times newsletter on football leads on set-pieces, highlighting Arsenal's goal against us. Their set-piece coach has apparently had success before at Brentford and is analytics driven

Whatever is the issue, we need someone new in to sort it. Over the past two seasons we have scored 4 from corners and conceded 18 (make that 19 now). Back in the mid-teens, the reverse tended to be the case and may well have kept us up some years

 

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View PatrickA's Profile PatrickA Flag London 10 Aug 22 6.43am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

I think this is a valid point and if not addressed will lead to us dropping unnecessary points again.
The team lacks dominant headers of the ball and often fail to compete well for second balls - as against Arsenal when Martinelli( not a renowned header of the ball) was left free to nod the ball in after Zinchenko won the first header.
We seemed to tighten up during last season , but it should be borne in mind that we no longer have the option of the physical Kouyate and the competitive Ward may feature less frequently.
We also no longer have the option of Benteke who was sometimes used as a sub to defend set pieces when we tried to see out games under aerial bombardment.
Defending set pieces are an area of concern and we have not looked threatening from our own set pieces since the days of Scott Dann.

 

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View Dubai Eagle's Profile Dubai Eagle Flag 10 Aug 22 7.33am Send a Private Message to Dubai Eagle Add Dubai Eagle as a friend

Something I have shared on here more than once -
Back in the days of Terry Ven (1st time) when we won a corner or free kick you could tell something exciting was going to happen, we had imagination, we had different ideas - the opposition didnt know what to expect - been an awful long time since then -

I don't know what a specialist set piece coach costs these days but whatever it is its worth it to get one in -

 

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View Eaglecoops's Profile Eaglecoops Flag CR3 10 Aug 22 8.54am Send a Private Message to Eaglecoops Add Eaglecoops as a friend

Anyone know what Richards is like in the air, he is 62? He could well be competing for a spot at either right back or part of a central 3 although our full backs are imo currently not good enough to play with a three.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 10 Aug 22 9.09am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

It is certainly infuriating if not highly worrying.

It has often been a focal point of b!tching for me (more at game, less so one here) and a good ol', toddler like moan at Guaita's lack of aerial presence and MG's lack of ability to marshal his defence (and now as captain, team).

Truth probably is however that we do need someone to drill them at the back. I would like to think we'd of addressed this in the close season but alas it was swiftly confirmed not to be so. For all the glamour and want for a new striker, brushing up on defending set pieces could be equally key in terms of goal difference and by extension points.

Edited by Nicholas91 (10 Aug 2022 9.10am)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View NEILLO's Profile NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 10 Aug 22 9.32am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

When it comes to specialist set piece coaching, I can see the benefit from an offensive perspective. The lack of creativity at Palace has been evident for some time now.

Defensively I see it differently. Defending set pieces is a fundamental basic. And we haven't been doing it well for the last year. Simple things like blocking runs, the stuff players get coached in at an early age, not being followed.

If we need a specialist for that, fine. Get one in. But I think it should fall to the existing coaches to get this issue addressed.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 10 Aug 22 9.51am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

When it comes to specialist set piece coaching, I can see the benefit from an offensive perspective. The lack of creativity at Palace has been evident for some time now.

Defensively I see it differently. Defending set pieces is a fundamental basic. And we haven't been doing it well for the last year. Simple things like blocking runs, the stuff players get coached in at an early age, not being followed.

If we need a specialist for that, fine. Get one in. But I think it should fall to the existing coaches to get this issue addressed.

Agree with that NIELLO, I've also pondered whether the want for defenders who are comfortable with ball at feet has arrived with the cost of them not being so hot on basic things such as organisation and blood and guts efforts to stop conceding, winning headers, body on the lines etc... hence the apparent disorganisation.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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View sydtheeagle's Profile sydtheeagle Flag England 10 Aug 22 9.56am Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

As I see it, largely agreeing with Neillo, defending set pieces should be fairly straightforward. You know who you're marking or which zone you're responsible for so you either do what it says on the tin or you don't. If things break down and you consistently fail to do your job then it suggests to me the problem is most likely mental rather than physical or, put another way, the issue is lapses in concentration. When these lapses occur as often as they do at Palace, you need to ask why.

The only reason I can come up with is that there is a lack of leadership in the heart of the defence. We didn't concede these sorts of goals with Dann and Delaney in the team because both were leaders; they simply paid attention and didn't allow s*** like this to happen. They also held others up to their standard in the box and organised the defence. We lack this now. Guehi is a fantastic player but he's young; he's not really of the maturity and possibly character at this stage in his career to organise a box full of older players. And Andersson, brilliant as he is as a quarterback, isn't really a rock-solid defensive organiser. I'm not sure what the solution is because we're not going to drop either of the above. It may be that we have to accept giving away a few poor set-piece goals as they mature. But I'm pretty certain this is where the problem lies.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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View palace99's Profile palace99 Flag New Mills 10 Aug 22 9.57am Send a Private Message to palace99 Add palace99 as a friend

Originally posted by NEILLO

When it comes to specialist set piece coaching, I can see the benefit from an offensive perspective. The lack of creativity at Palace has been evident for some time now.

Defensively I see it differently. Defending set pieces is a fundamental basic. And we haven't been doing it well for the last year. Simple things like blocking runs, the stuff players get coached in at an early age, not being followed.

If we need a specialist for that, fine. Get one in. But I think it should fall to the existing coaches to get this issue addressed.

Have to agree, it is not rocket science and set pieces are a fundamental part of the game, any standard coach should be able to address this.
A lot of teams (e.g. the scum v Harry Maguire this weekend) use smaller men to block a run. They are not there to stop the header, merely stop or slow down the movement/run.
Ayew and Clyne would be ideal for this.
Look at the Liverpool 1st goal last season. If we had used a blocker van Dijk may not have scored so easily.
Everton last season (3-2) proved that we are still very vulnerable to set pieces.

As for our attacking ones - we just lack any imagination.

 

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View Tickled pink's Profile Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 10 Aug 22 10.00am Send a Private Message to Tickled pink Add Tickled pink as a friend

A defender on each post would for me be the answer.

 

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View palace99's Profile palace99 Flag New Mills 10 Aug 22 10.05am Send a Private Message to palace99 Add palace99 as a friend

Originally posted by sydtheeagle

As I see it, largely agreeing with Neillo, defending set pieces should be fairly straightforward. You know who you're marking or which zone you're responsible for so you either do what it says on the tin or you don't. If things break down and you consistently fail to do your job then it suggests to me the problem is most likely mental rather than physical or, put another way, the issue is lapses in concentration. When these lapses occur as often as they do at Palace, you need to ask why.

The only reason I can come up with is that there is a lack of leadership in the heart of the defence. We didn't concede these sorts of goals with Dann and Delaney in the team because both were leaders; they simply paid attention and didn't allow s*** like this to happen. They also held others up to their standard in the box and organised the defence. We lack this now. Guehi is a fantastic player but he's young; he's not really of the maturity and possibly character at this stage in his career to organise a box full of older players. And Andersson, brilliant as he is as a quarterback, isn't really a rock-solid defensive organiser. I'm not sure what the solution is because we're not going to drop either of the above. It may be that we have to accept giving away a few poor set-piece goals as they mature. But I'm pretty certain this is where the problem lies.

I disagree, since the age of 10 i was organising any team i played with at corners etc. This is basic.

Guehi and Andersen are not only centre backs but they are both internationals, there is no excuse.
For me the issue is that club's macro manage these things now so there is little on pitch organisation these days. Look at the pages of info a sub is forced to review before they come onto the pitch. Madness.

Can you remember the awful goal we conceded against Manc City about 6 years ago - a 1-1 they took a quick corner and smashed it across the 6 yard box. An unmarked 6 ft 2 Toure had a tap in, whilst all our players stood around watching. Dann and Tomkins were centre backs that day. That's a lack on on pitch organisation for you - and things don't seem to have improved

 

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View palace99's Profile palace99 Flag New Mills 10 Aug 22 10.08am Send a Private Message to palace99 Add palace99 as a friend

Originally posted by palace99

I disagree, since the age of 10 i was organising any team i played with at corners etc. This is basic.

Guehi and Andersen are not only centre backs but they are both internationals, there is no excuse.
For me the issue is that club's macro manage these things now so there is little on pitch organisation these days. Look at the pages of info a sub is forced to review before they come onto the pitch. Madness.

Can you remember the awful goal we conceded against Manc City about 6 years ago - at 1-1 they took a quick corner and smashed it across the 6 yard box. An unmarked 6 ft 2 Toure had a tap in, whilst all our players stood around watching. Dann and Tomkins were centre backs that day. That's a lack on on pitch organisation for you - and things don't seem to have improved

 

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