Geo politics on the streets of the West

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Oct 23 12.39pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger If we are going to involve ourselves in a war with Islamic extremists...... you are using a term i have always struggled to understand. Extremists versus what ? moderates, or lukewarm ? how about 'not really following the teachings of the Holy Book'. Osama Bin Laden is reported to have drunk alcohol and many other anti-islamic vices. So does he adhere to the book or not ? is he an extremist or not ? Moderates living next door to you ? are they moderate or lapsed-failed Muslims ? it all depends on who you ask. And if they chant for the murder of , say, gays, Jews or apostates, then are they extremists ? what about the Saudi Government ? or were they only following the orders of the Book ? and what about Christian Extremists ? the Book of Leviticus is fairly violent and scary. And remember the Crusades. if my next door neighbour doesnt drink alcohol, is he more extreme than Bin Laden ? was Martin McGuinness an IRA extremist ? or was he just IRA ? what about Shane McGowan ? [Link] Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 12.58pm) Eze Peasy at Anfield....
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Oct 23 12.39pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If we are going to involve ourselves in a war with Islamic extremists......

you are using a term i have always struggled to understand.

Extremists versus what ? moderates, or lukewarm ?

how about 'not really following the teachings of the Holy Book'.

Osama Bin Laden is reported to have drunk alcohol and many other anti-islamic vices. So does he adhere to the book or not ? is he an extremist or not ?

Moderates living next door to you ? are they moderate or lapsed-failed Muslims ? it all depends on who you ask. And if they chant for the murder of , say, gays, Jews or apostates, then are they extremists ? what about the Saudi Government ?

or were they only following the orders of the Book ?

and what about Christian Extremists ? the Book of Leviticus is fairly violent and scary. And remember the Crusades.

if my next door neighbour doesnt drink alcohol, is he more extreme than Bin Laden ?

was Martin McGuinness an IRA extremist ? or was he just IRA ? what about Shane McGowan ?

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 12.58pm)

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Oct 23 12.48pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio you are using a term i have always struggled to understand. Extremists versus what ? moderates, or lukewarm ? how about 'not really following the teachings of the Holy Book'. Osama Bin Laden is reported to have drunk alcohol and many other anti-islamic vices. So does he adhere to the book or not ? is he an extremist or not ? Moderates living next door to you ? are they moderate or lapsed-failed Muslims ? it all depends on who you ask. And if they chant for the murder of , say, gays, Jews or apostates, then are they extremists ? what about the Saudi Government ? or were they only following the orders of the Book ? and what about Christian Extremists ? the Book of Leviticus is fairly violent and scary. And remember the Crusades. if my next door neighbour doesnt drink alcohol, is he more extreme than Bin Laden ? [Link] Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 12.42pm) What is your point? The extremism I'm concerned about is the type that threatens the security of this country. Religious beliefs are one thing. When law breaking and terrorism results, then we have a problem.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Oct 23 12.48pm

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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

you are using a term i have always struggled to understand.

Extremists versus what ? moderates, or lukewarm ?

how about 'not really following the teachings of the Holy Book'.

Osama Bin Laden is reported to have drunk alcohol and many other anti-islamic vices. So does he adhere to the book or not ? is he an extremist or not ?

or were they only following the orders of the Book ?

and what about Christian Extremists ? the Book of Leviticus is fairly violent and scary. And remember the Crusades.

if my next door neighbour doesnt drink alcohol, is he more extreme than Bin Laden ?

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 12.42pm)

What is your point?

The extremism I'm concerned about is the type that threatens the security of this country.
Religious beliefs are one thing. When law breaking and terrorism results, then we have a problem.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Oct 23 1.06pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What is your point? The extremism I'm concerned about is the type that threatens the security of this country. Religious beliefs are one thing. When law breaking and terrorism results, then we have a problem. 'my point' ...is more of a question than a statement. What is an extremist ? if a fella eats Pork & drinks alcohol, is he not a real Muslim ? was Tony Blair an extremist ? in the Middle East, maybe. In Ulster maybe he was a peacemaker. do the media ever report on Israeli extremists ? or Jewish terrorists ? were all Nazi's also Extremists ? in which case, you do not need to qualify the term. What about Nazi Moderates ? Reportedly, Hitlers Architect, Albert Speer , was never involved in any genocidal stuff. Only an architect....but still a Nazi. And again, what about the nice old Lady living next door to you in Munich ? she voted for Hitler cos she agreed with his policy on education for her kids ? moderate or extremist ? If that lady drapes a swastika in front of her house, but doesnt approve of Concentration camps, is she 'not a real Nazi' ? i guess my point is.......there are too many nutters in political & religious life. And we should blame the opinion-leaders....whoever they may be identified as. Priests, Rabbis, Imams, Journalists, politicians etc . And also blame the Holy teachings written in texts. They must also be held to account, even if they were written thousands of years ago. Mein Kampf, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah/Talmud.....if it calls for murder then it is surely a bloody book ? Do we censor bloody-books ? Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 1.23pm) Eze Peasy at Anfield....
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Oct 23 1.06pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What is your point?

The extremism I'm concerned about is the type that threatens the security of this country.
Religious beliefs are one thing. When law breaking and terrorism results, then we have a problem.

'my point' ...is more of a question than a statement. What is an extremist ?

if a fella eats Pork & drinks alcohol, is he not a real Muslim ?

was Tony Blair an extremist ? in the Middle East, maybe. In Ulster maybe he was a peacemaker.

do the media ever report on Israeli extremists ? or Jewish terrorists ?

were all Nazi's also Extremists ? in which case, you do not need to qualify the term. What about Nazi Moderates ? Reportedly, Hitlers Architect, Albert Speer , was never involved in any genocidal stuff. Only an architect....but still a Nazi. And again, what about the nice old Lady living next door to you in Munich ? she voted for Hitler cos she agreed with his policy on education for her kids ? moderate or extremist ?

If that lady drapes a swastika in front of her house, but doesnt approve of Concentration camps, is she 'not a real Nazi' ?

i guess my point is.......there are too many nutters in political & religious life. And we should blame the opinion-leaders....whoever they may be identified as. Priests, Rabbis, Imams, Journalists, politicians etc .

And also blame the Holy teachings written in texts. They must also be held to account, even if they were written thousands of years ago. Mein Kampf, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah/Talmud.....if it calls for murder then it is surely a bloody book ? Do we censor bloody-books ?

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 1.23pm)

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Oct 23 1.42pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio 'my point' ...is more of a question than a statement. What is an extremist ? if a fella eats Pork & drinks alcohol, is he not a real Muslim ? was Tony Blair an extremist ? in the Middle East, maybe. In Ulster maybe he was a peacemaker. do the media ever report on Israeli extremists ? or Jewish terrorists ? were all Nazi's also Extremists ? in which case, you do not need to qualify the term. What about Nazi Moderates ? Reportedly, Hitlers Architect, Albert Speer , was never involved in any genocidal stuff. Only an architect....but still a Nazi. And again, what about the nice old Lady living next door to you in Munich ? she voted for Hitler cos she agreed with his policy on education for her kids ? moderate or extremist ? If that lady drapes a swastika in front of her house, but doesnt approve of Concentration camps, is she 'not a real Nazi' ? i guess my point is.......there are too many nutters in political & religious life. And we should blame the opinion-leaders....whoever they may be identified as. Priests, Rabbis, Imams, Journalists, politicians etc . And also blame the Holy teachings written in texts. They must also be held to account, even if they were written thousands of years ago. Mein Kampf, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah/Talmud.....if it calls for murder then it is surely a bloody book ? Do we censor bloody-books ? Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 1.23pm) Thank you. I suppose one can only deal with these matters in a way that practicality allows. You can't kill an idea easily. You can't just end religion. I would like to, as impossible as that would be, but whenever one makes a decision of that nature, it might have wide sweeping and potentially unforeseen results. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. All I ask of our governments is to do what we elect it to do. Protect its citizens and their best interests. In a situation like this, we can't just undo thousands of years of religion and decades of immigration or round up everyone who has ever said anything bonkers. What we can do is protect the public in all ways possible in the immediate term and think about how our policy going forward can limit future risk. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Oct 2023 1.42pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Oct 23 1.42pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

'my point' ...is more of a question than a statement. What is an extremist ?

if a fella eats Pork & drinks alcohol, is he not a real Muslim ?

was Tony Blair an extremist ? in the Middle East, maybe. In Ulster maybe he was a peacemaker.

do the media ever report on Israeli extremists ? or Jewish terrorists ?

If that lady drapes a swastika in front of her house, but doesnt approve of Concentration camps, is she 'not a real Nazi' ?

i guess my point is.......there are too many nutters in political & religious life. And we should blame the opinion-leaders....whoever they may be identified as. Priests, Rabbis, Imams, Journalists, politicians etc .

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Oct 2023 1.23pm)

Thank you.

I suppose one can only deal with these matters in a way that practicality allows.

You can't kill an idea easily. You can't just end religion.

I would like to, as impossible as that would be, but whenever one makes a decision of that nature, it might have wide sweeping and potentially unforeseen results. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.

All I ask of our governments is to do what we elect it to do. Protect its citizens and their best interests.

In a situation like this, we can't just undo thousands of years of religion and decades of immigration or round up everyone who has ever said anything bonkers. What we can do is protect the public in all ways possible in the immediate term and think about how our policy going forward can limit future risk.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Oct 2023 1.42pm)

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YT Oxford 13 Oct 23 1.54pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Thank you. I suppose one can only deal with these matters in a way that practicality allows. You can't kill an idea easily. You can't just end religion. I would like to, as impossible as that would be, but whenever one makes a decision of that nature, it might have wide sweeping and potentially unforeseen results. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. All I ask of our governments is to do what we elect it to do. Protect its citizens and their best interests. In a situation like this, we can't just undo thousands of years of religion and decades of immigration or round up everyone who has ever said anything bonkers. What we can do is protect the public in all ways possible in the immediate term and think about how our policy going forward can limit future risk. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Oct 2023 1.42pm) Thank goodness for that, Hrolf. Otherwise HOL would run out of members overnight! Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 13 Oct 23 1.54pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Thank you.

I suppose one can only deal with these matters in a way that practicality allows.

You can't kill an idea easily. You can't just end religion.

All I ask of our governments is to do what we elect it to do. Protect its citizens and their best interests.

In a situation like this, we can't just undo thousands of years of religion and decades of immigration or round up everyone who has ever said anything bonkers. What we can do is protect the public in all ways possible in the immediate term and think about how our policy going forward can limit future risk.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Oct 2023 1.42pm)

Thank goodness for that, Hrolf. Otherwise HOL would run out of members overnight!

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Oct 23 1.56pm
Originally posted by YT Thank goodness for that, Hrolf. Otherwise HOL would run out of members overnight! The thought did occur. More so on the other site.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Oct 23 1.56pm

Originally posted by YT

Thank goodness for that, Hrolf. Otherwise HOL would run out of members overnight!

The thought did occur.

More so on the other site.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Oct 23 2.04pm
[Link] No arrests for supporting BHA though unfortunately. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Oct 23 2.04pm

[Link]

No arrests for supporting BHA though unfortunately.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Oct 23 4.10pm
it has started, a stabbing-murder of a teacher in a school, in France.....again. Two other people hurt. And the familiar terrorist rallying cry was shouted as the knife was plunged into its victims. [Link] Eze Peasy at Anfield....
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Oct 23 4.10pm

it has started, a stabbing-murder of a teacher in a school, in France.....again.
Two other people hurt. And the familiar terrorist rallying cry was shouted as the knife was plunged into its victims.

[Link]

Eze Peasy at Anfield....

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HKOwen Hong Kong 13 Oct 23 10.38pm
[Link] Disgraceful in Australia Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 13 Oct 23 10.38pm

[Link]

Disgraceful in Australia

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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eritheagle Erith 13 Oct 23 11.02pm
Originally posted by HKOwen [Link] Disgraceful in Australia Totally agree. A precursor to what’s gonna happen here and in every western country! ( Annie Pullar is fit though!)
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eritheagle

Erith 13 Oct 23 11.02pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

[Link]

Disgraceful in Australia

Totally agree. A precursor to what’s gonna happen here and in every western country!

( Annie Pullar is fit though!)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 23 11.12pm
What’s important in this is to ensure we treat those who commit atrocities as the criminals they are. We need to be ruthless in our efforts to identify them before they act and severe in our punishments if they do. What we mustn’t do is ostracise all the Muslims who aren’t terrorists. We must treat people on how they behave and not on what they believe. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Oct 23 11.12pm

What’s important in this is to ensure we treat those who commit atrocities as the criminals they are. We need to be ruthless in our efforts to identify them before they act and severe in our punishments if they do.

What we mustn’t do is ostracise all the Muslims who aren’t terrorists. We must treat people on how they behave and not on what they believe.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Matov 14 Oct 23 11.48am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio it has started, a stabbing-murder of a teacher in a school, in France.....again. Two other people hurt. And the familiar terrorist rallying cry was shouted as the knife was plunged into its victims. [Link] I wonder if they will cut the water supply off to the estate this murderer came from? I wonder if the local police chief will go on the TV and say how these animals will be wiped out? The double standards around reaction to terror attacks tells the entire story when it comes to what is really going on. Terrorists murder white Europeans and its all candle holding and declaring our support for the community the terrorist come from lest somebody calls them naughty words. Terrorists murder Isralies, and suddenly collective punishment is, literally, kosher. That is the geo-politics people need to be taking real notice of. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

14 Oct 23 11.48am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

it has started, a stabbing-murder of a teacher in a school, in France.....again.
Two other people hurt. And the familiar terrorist rallying cry was shouted as the knife was plunged into its victims.

[Link]

I wonder if they will cut the water supply off to the estate this murderer came from? I wonder if the local police chief will go on the TV and say how these animals will be wiped out?

The double standards around reaction to terror attacks tells the entire story when it comes to what is really going on.

Terrorists murder white Europeans and its all candle holding and declaring our support for the community the terrorist come from lest somebody calls them naughty words.

Terrorists murder Isralies, and suddenly collective punishment is, literally, kosher.

That is the geo-politics people need to be taking real notice of.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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