Wife-Beaters

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reborn 24 Mar 05 1.21pm
you're odd.... Quote Farawayeagle at 24 Mar 2005 11:41am Steff.....with points..... in a dress!! Mmmmmmm!! My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs
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reborn 24 Mar 05 1.21pm

you're odd....

Quote Farawayeagle at 24 Mar 2005 11:41am

Steff.....with points..... in a dress!!

Mmmmmmm!!

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

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rach_cpfc South Croydon 24 Mar 05 2.26pm
Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 10:12am Well, all I was trying to say is that women sometimes handle this "first abuse" situation wrongly, which then is the green light for these cavemen to up the tempo and intensity ! AND THEN IT IS THE WOMENS' FAULT, that's all. They should always draw a line to start of with because some blokes are violent ! If this is so wrong then i apologise !! Well, that was it, you can all go on pointing out how my posts disgust you ! Leaving their partner the first time a violent incident occurs is the obviously logical answer... BUT don't forget that a lot of the time love is involved. If the woman loves her partner, and if he begs for her forgiveness and promises it will never happen again, or promises he'll change, she probably will forgive him and believe him because she wants to believe him. "....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."
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rach_cpfc

South Croydon 24 Mar 05 2.26pm

Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 10:12am

Well, all I was trying to say is that women sometimes handle this "first abuse" situation wrongly, which then is the green light for these cavemen to up the tempo and intensity ! AND THEN IT IS THE WOMENS' FAULT, that's all. They should always draw a line to start of with because some blokes are violent !

If this is so wrong then i apologise !!

Well, that was it, you can all go on pointing out how my posts disgust you !

Leaving their partner the first time a violent incident occurs is the obviously logical answer...
BUT
don't forget that a lot of the time love is involved.
If the woman loves her partner, and if he begs for her forgiveness and promises it will never happen again, or promises he'll change, she probably will forgive him and believe him because she wants to believe him.

"....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow
weary, they will walk and not be faint."

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JollyStef 24 Mar 05 3.25pm
Quote rach_d_cpfc at 24 Mar 2005 2:26pm Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 10:12am Well, all I was trying to say is that women sometimes handle this "first abuse" situation wrongly, which then is the green light for these cavemen to up the tempo and intensity ! AND THEN IT IS THE WOMENS' FAULT, that's all. They should always draw a line to start of with because some blokes are violent ! If this is so wrong then i apologise !! Well, that was it, you can all go on pointing out how my posts disgust you ! Leaving their partner the first time a violent incident occurs is the obviously logical answer... BUT don't forget that a lot of the time love is involved. If the woman loves her partner, and if he begs for her forgiveness and promises it will never happen again, or promises he'll change, she probably will forgive him and believe him because she wants to believe him. Exactly .. so then you say "please write this down : You touch me again and I walk .. and then no more promises or excuses coz I will be gone". In my book you either say it in advance at the start of the relationship (easily done) or you draw a line after the first time (also easily done, everyone is entitled to a second chance if it's the first time you talk about it). Love is still no excuse for years of abuse, once ok .. but 100 times ?? Edited by JollyStef (24 Mar 2005 3:28pm) finished
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JollyStef 24 Mar 05 3.25pm

Quote rach_d_cpfc at 24 Mar 2005 2:26pm

Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 10:12am

Well, that was it, you can all go on pointing out how my posts disgust you !

Exactly .. so then you say "please write this down : You touch me again and I walk .. and then no more promises or excuses coz I will be gone".
In my book you either say it in advance at the start of the relationship (easily done) or you draw a line after the first time (also easily done, everyone is entitled to a second chance if it's the first time you talk about it).

Love is still no excuse for years of abuse, once ok .. but 100 times ??

Edited by JollyStef (24 Mar 2005 3:28pm)

finished

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Palace Pat Adelaide 24 Mar 05 3.45pm
Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 10:12am It seems to me most people on here now think i'm some kind of wife-beater just because i was trying to make a point whilst I'm probably the nicest guy going in a relationship. Before I shut up on this thread let me just make clear to you all I do NOT approve of wife-beaters, I despise these people and I think they should definately be punished. I never said i agreed with men hitting women, that is indeed something which should NEVER happen. The point I tried to make was regarding how you handle this as the woman. As palacepat said "Very rarely is it a case of some bloke has upped and clumped his wife without any prior abuse. Abuse can include emotional abuse, controlling or extreme jealous behaviour, demeaning a partner, or all sorts of other things". Well, all I was trying to say is that women sometimes handle this "first abuse" situation wrongly, which then is the green light for these cavemen to up the tempo and intensity ! AND THEN IT IS THE WOMENS' FAULT, that's all. They should always draw a line to start of with because some blokes are violent ! If this is so wrong then i apologise !! Well, that was it, you can all go on pointing out how my posts disgust you ! Edited by JollyStef (24 Mar 2005 10:21am) If 'most people' included me, I certainly do not think you are some kind of wife beater, I don't know you and to assume something like that on the strength of a couple of posts I disagree with would be outrageous. I just disagree with your posts. It's fairly obvious that we'll have to agree to disagree but still I can't resist getting another tuppence worth in. Of course the ideal situation is that if violence happens once, the woman ends the relationship. However there are a multitude of reasons why it is not that simple, that much is obvious by statistics showing that women in violent relationships often DO NOT leave at the first or second occurrance of violence. As such I would say that vioence is not the woman's fault simply because she does not walk away from a violent relationship. If you knew someone (maybe you do) who was in an abusive relationship, and had suffered violence more than once, would you say to that woman's face that it is her fault, and she deserved it because she has not left? Sht. What? Rollers. No. Yeah. Sht. Crystal Palace F.C. Adelaide Supporters Facebook group > [Link] Crystal Palace FC Australia Network > [Link]
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Palace Pat

Adelaide 24 Mar 05 3.45pm

Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 10:12am

It seems to me most people on here now think i'm some kind of wife-beater just because i was trying to make a point whilst I'm probably the nicest guy going in a relationship.

Before I shut up on this thread let me just make clear to you all I do NOT approve of wife-beaters, I despise these people and I think they should definately be punished. I never said i agreed with men hitting women, that is indeed something which should NEVER happen.

The point I tried to make was regarding how you handle this as the woman. As palacepat said "Very rarely is it a case of some bloke has upped and clumped his wife without any prior abuse. Abuse can include emotional abuse, controlling or extreme jealous behaviour, demeaning a partner, or all sorts of other things".

Well, that was it, you can all go on pointing out how my posts disgust you !

Edited by JollyStef (24 Mar 2005 10:21am)

If 'most people' included me, I certainly do not think you are some kind of wife beater, I don't know you and to assume something like that on the strength of a couple of posts I disagree with would be outrageous. I just disagree with your posts.

It's fairly obvious that we'll have to agree to disagree but still I can't resist getting another tuppence worth in.

Of course the ideal situation is that if violence happens once, the woman ends the relationship. However there are a multitude of reasons why it is not that simple, that much is obvious by statistics showing that women in violent relationships often DO NOT leave at the first or second occurrance of violence.

As such I would say that vioence is not the woman's fault simply because she does not walk away from a violent relationship.

If you knew someone (maybe you do) who was in an abusive relationship, and had suffered violence more than once, would you say to that woman's face that it is her fault, and she deserved it because she has not left?

Sh*t. What? Rollers. No. Yeah. Sh*t.

Crystal Palace F.C. Adelaide Supporters Facebook group > [Link]

Crystal Palace FC Australia Network > [Link]

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JollyStef 24 Mar 05 4.02pm
Quote Palace Pat at 24 Mar 2005 3:45pm It's fairly obvious that we'll have to agree to disagree but still I can't resist getting another tuppence worth in. Of course the ideal situation is that if violence happens once, the woman ends the relationship. However there are a multitude of reasons why it is not that simple, that much is obvious by statistics showing that women in violent relationships often DO NOT leave at the first or second occurrance of violence. As such I would say that vioence is not the woman's fault simply because she does not walk away from a violent relationship. If you knew someone (maybe you do) who was in an abusive relationship, and had suffered violence more than once, would you say to that woman's face that it is her fault, and she deserved it because she has not left? I guess we must agree to disagree here (read my previous answer to Rach for more info) : 1st time : give him a 2nd chance 2nd time : walk After that : well, you should have known better !! If I hit my head on the same branch of a tree in my garden evertime I walk past it, then who's fault is it ? The branch's ? or mine for everytime forgetting that the branch is there ? You either get rid of the branch or you get hit. If you can't reason with the guy then why stay ?? And to answer you question : yes I have witnessed a couple (at first hand even .. but I don't want to elaborate on that, it's private), even more than one. finished
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JollyStef 24 Mar 05 4.02pm

Quote Palace Pat at 24 Mar 2005 3:45pm
It's fairly obvious that we'll have to agree to disagree but still I can't resist getting another tuppence worth in.

As such I would say that vioence is not the woman's fault simply because she does not walk away from a violent relationship.

I guess we must agree to disagree here (read my previous answer to Rach for more info) :

1st time : give him a 2nd chance
2nd time : walk
After that : well, you should have known better !!

If I hit my head on the same branch of a tree in my garden evertime I walk past it, then who's fault is it ? The branch's ? or mine for everytime forgetting that the branch is there ?

You either get rid of the branch or you get hit.

If you can't reason with the guy then why stay ??

And to answer you question : yes I have witnessed a couple (at first hand even .. but I don't want to elaborate on that, it's private), even more than one.

finished

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rach_cpfc South Croydon 24 Mar 05 4.16pm
I'd assume you're not in a relationship with a tree though....! And, in your example, the tree is an innocent bystander - you banged IT, it didn't bang you. Edited by rach_d_cpfc (24 Mar 2005 4:17pm) "....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."
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rach_cpfc

South Croydon 24 Mar 05 4.16pm

I'd assume you're not in a relationship with a tree though....!
And, in your example, the tree is an innocent bystander - you banged IT, it didn't bang you.

Edited by rach_d_cpfc (24 Mar 2005 4:17pm)

"....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow
weary, they will walk and not be faint."

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Palace Pat Adelaide 24 Mar 05 4.31pm
Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 4:02pm Quote Palace Pat at 24 Mar 2005 3:45pm It's fairly obvious that we'll have to agree to disagree but still I can't resist getting another tuppence worth in. Of course the ideal situation is that if violence happens once, the woman ends the relationship. However there are a multitude of reasons why it is not that simple, that much is obvious by statistics showing that women in violent relationships often DO NOT leave at the first or second occurrance of violence. As such I would say that vioence is not the woman's fault simply because she does not walk away from a violent relationship. If you knew someone (maybe you do) who was in an abusive relationship, and had suffered violence more than once, would you say to that woman's face that it is her fault, and she deserved it because she has not left? I guess we must agree to disagree here (read my previous answer to Rach for more info) : 1st time : give him a 2nd chance 2nd time : walk After that : well, you should have known better !! If I hit my head on the same branch of a tree in my garden evertime I walk past it, then who's fault is it ? The branch's ? or mine for everytime forgetting that the branch is there ? You either get rid of the branch or you get hit. If you can't reason with the guy then why stay ?? And to answer you question : yes I have witnessed a couple (at first hand even .. but I don't want to elaborate on that, it's private), even more than one. Sorry, I realise I am one boring cnt, but let me answer your question: -maybe you are terrified of what he will do if you do leave. -maybe you are absolutely convinced that the violence is your fault, and if you can change your behaviour the violence will stop. -maybe you think, that really will be the last time. -maybe you have children, don't want to split up the family, or are scared they may be in danger if you do. -maybe you are completely isolated and have no-one else for emotional support, other than the abuser. -maybe you think violence in a relationship is normal. -maybe the abuser is blackmailing you. etc. etc. etc. To you and me yes, it seems easy and obvious that they should just walk, and some women do. It's just not that simple for all women in abusive relationships. I will now attempt (being the operative word) to hold my tongue on the subject. Sht. What? Rollers. No. Yeah. Sh*t. Crystal Palace F.C. Adelaide Supporters Facebook group > [Link] Crystal Palace FC Australia Network > [Link]
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Palace Pat

Adelaide 24 Mar 05 4.31pm

Quote JollyStef at 24 Mar 2005 4:02pm

Quote Palace Pat at 24 Mar 2005 3:45pm
It's fairly obvious that we'll have to agree to disagree but still I can't resist getting another tuppence worth in.

As such I would say that vioence is not the woman's fault simply because she does not walk away from a violent relationship.

I guess we must agree to disagree here (read my previous answer to Rach for more info) :

1st time : give him a 2nd chance
2nd time : walk
After that : well, you should have known better !!

If I hit my head on the same branch of a tree in my garden evertime I walk past it, then who's fault is it ? The branch's ? or mine for everytime forgetting that the branch is there ?

You either get rid of the branch or you get hit.

If you can't reason with the guy then why stay ??

And to answer you question : yes I have witnessed a couple (at first hand even .. but I don't want to elaborate on that, it's private), even more than one.

Sorry, I realise I am one boring c*nt, but let me answer your question:

-maybe you are terrified of what he will do if you do leave.

-maybe you are absolutely convinced that the violence is your fault, and if you can change your behaviour the violence will stop.

-maybe you think, that really will be the last time.

-maybe you have children, don't want to split up the family, or are scared they may be in danger if you do.

-maybe you are completely isolated and have no-one else for emotional support, other than the abuser.

-maybe you think violence in a relationship is normal.

-maybe the abuser is blackmailing you.

etc. etc. etc.

To you and me yes, it seems easy and obvious that they should just walk, and some women do. It's just not that simple for all women in abusive relationships.

I will now attempt (being the operative word) to hold my tongue on the subject.

Sh*t. What? Rollers. No. Yeah. Sh*t.

Crystal Palace F.C. Adelaide Supporters Facebook group > [Link]

Crystal Palace FC Australia Network > [Link]

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Pac Pac london 24 Mar 05 7.50pm
Quote tetley Birmingham / Old Coulsdon 22 Mar 2005 4:13am Right , i'm getting this off my chest when i''m pissed so please excuse the bad typing! earler on this evening, on my way back from somewhere, i saw a girl getting chased by some fella. i asked him what he was doing and he f*eed off , but then i saw the girl was covered in bruises, cuts etc. first off i made sure she was cool, then she asked me to get her cigs and jakcet off the fella, so i went and got them off him. when i went up to him, he was a big strapping 40-year old (roughly), but he was eating out of my hand (and i'm apparently a tall skinny student 'numpty'). i got the bits and went back to the girl, made sure she was ok, etc etc. anyway, the thing that bugs me know is that she lives near and i know she had an abusive ex. i want to punch his f*ing grill out but the girl wasnt too receptive to that idea. she wasnt too keen on calling the police either (although that obviously makes sense). i'm meeting her again on a check-up, but what kind of things should i be doing right now? again, pardon the text language and typo's please but i'm not in a great mood. i say get a knife and cut his bollocks of, anyman that hits a women is not a man, i think very strong about this, it is wrong Edited by Penge Eagle (24 Mar 2005 8:09pm)
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Pac Pac

london 24 Mar 05 7.50pm

Quote tetley Birmingham / Old Coulsdon 22 Mar 2005 4:13am

Right , i'm getting this off my chest when i''m pissed so please excuse the bad typing!

earler on this evening, on my way back from somewhere, i saw a girl getting chased by some fella. i asked him what he was doing and he f***eed off , but then i saw the girl was covered in bruises, cuts etc. first off i made sure she was cool, then she asked me to get her cigs and jakcet off the fella, so i went and got them off him. when i went up to him, he was a big strapping 40-year old (roughly), but he was eating out of my hand (and i'm apparently a tall skinny student 'numpty'). i got the bits and went back to the girl, made sure she was ok, etc etc.

anyway, the thing that bugs me know is that she lives near and i know she had an abusive ex. i want to punch his f***ing grill out but the girl wasnt too receptive to that idea. she wasnt too keen on calling the police either (although that obviously makes sense). i'm meeting her again on a check-up, but what kind of things should i be doing right now?

again, pardon the text language and typo's please but i'm not in a great mood.

i say get a knife and cut his bollocks of, anyman that hits a women is not a man, i think very strong about this, it is wrong

Edited by Penge Eagle (24 Mar 2005 8:09pm)

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 24 Mar 05 8.21pm
A mate of mine hit his ex bird after she stabbed him amongst other things. She cut up his designer gear, he threw her make-up down the toilet etc etc and it all escalated. The relationship became volatile and in some cases things get out of hand in the heat of the moment. I'm not sure how hard or how often he hit her - it may have just been a liitle tap on one occasion - but he is deeply ashamed by his actions and doesn't want to talk about it. It's not all black and white. Myself and Guntrisoft knew a dumbass girl who used to enjoy being "put in her place" by a man. She didn't like decent guys and in a strange way, wanted her man to push her about and show her who's boss. She used to deliberatly wind blokes up and get a kick out of seeing them get angry. I'm not like that and that's why she didn't go for me! All very weird I know but Guntri will back me up on this one! Both the above are very small-scale examples.
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 24 Mar 05 8.21pm

A mate of mine hit his ex bird after she stabbed him amongst other things. She cut up his designer gear, he threw her make-up down the toilet etc etc and it all escalated. The relationship became volatile and in some cases things get out of hand in the heat of the moment. I'm not sure how hard or how often he hit her - it may have just been a liitle tap on one occasion - but he is deeply ashamed by his actions and doesn't want to talk about it. It's not all black and white.

Myself and Guntrisoft knew a dumbass girl who used to enjoy being "put in her place" by a man. She didn't like decent guys and in a strange way, wanted her man to push her about and show her who's boss. She used to deliberatly wind blokes up and get a kick out of seeing them get angry. I'm not like that and that's why she didn't go for me! All very weird I know but Guntri will back me up on this one!

Both the above are very small-scale examples.

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becky over the moon 24 Mar 05 10.20pm
Quote Penge Eagle at 24 Mar 2005 8:21pm Myself and Guntrisoft knew a dumbass girl who used to enjoy being "put in her place" by a man. She didn't like decent guys and in a strange way, wanted her man to push her about and show her who's boss. She used to deliberatly wind blokes up and get a kick out of seeing them get angry. I'm not like that and that's why she didn't go for me! All very weird I know but Guntri will back me up on this one! Both the above are very small-scale examples. This seems like an example of the condtioning that I referred to earlier. Perhaps her parents were in a violent relationship, and to her, this is 'normal' behaviour - thus any man who did not hit her was not normal. Or maybe, for whatever reasons she felt inadequate as a person and by making a man angry enough to hit her, it gave her some control over him, i.e. she had the power to cause a reaction. If this is the only way that you can get someone to notice or react to you, well..... some people will think that is better than nothing. It is so very, very sad that some women are so damaged that they will accept violence in a relationship rather than have no relationship at all. This is why they won't walk away. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 24 Mar 05 10.20pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 24 Mar 2005 8:21pm

Both the above are very small-scale examples.

This seems like an example of the condtioning that I referred to earlier. Perhaps her parents were in a violent relationship, and to her, this is 'normal' behaviour - thus any man who did not hit her was not normal. Or maybe, for whatever reasons she felt inadequate as a person and by making a man angry enough to hit her, it gave her some control over him, i.e. she had the power to cause a reaction. If this is the only way that you can get someone to notice or react to you, well..... some people will think that is better than nothing.

It is so very, very sad that some women are so damaged that they will accept violence in a relationship rather than have no relationship at all. This is why they won't walk away.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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JollyStef 25 Mar 05 10.03am
Palace Pat -maybe you are terrified of what he will do if you do leave. * Maybe you should be terrified of what he'll do when you stay -maybe you are absolutely convinced that the violence is your fault, and if you can change your behaviour the violence will stop. * Maybe then you need counselling -maybe you think, that really will be the last time. * Believing in the Easter bunny is a nice feeling too, but growing up and waking up will get you further in life -maybe you have children, don't want to split up the family, or are scared they may be in danger if you do. * Valid point, nothing to say about that. Apart from that the kids aren't blind and will know what is happening. Not a nice childhood me thinks (I can speak from experience .. there now you know where i'm coming from) -maybe you are completely isolated and have no-one else for emotional support, other than the abuser. * Well, you still got a brain and can think for yourself. You can always go to those shelters -maybe you think violence in a relationship is normal. * What can I say, then the damage was done a lot earlier than the first hit. Can't really comment on that. -maybe the abuser is blackmailing you. * A very good reason to run like f*** i think. Everlasting argument mate, interesting but never ending. Let's agree to disagree, we all make our own choices in life, we all make our own luck and we create our own opportunities. If someone is weak that is hardly my fault .. I can't change weak people, that's something they have to deal with themselves. There are specialised organisations who deal with this, contact those. I agree the wife beaters are always wrong, what happens after that we seem to disagree on. But let's say at least we all agree wife beaters are scum and leave it at that ! Edited by JollyStef (25 Mar 2005 10:08am) finished
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JollyStef 25 Mar 05 10.03am

Palace Pat

-maybe you are terrified of what he will do if you do leave.
* Maybe you should be terrified of what he'll do when you stay

-maybe you are absolutely convinced that the violence is your fault, and if you can change your behaviour the violence will stop.
* Maybe then you need counselling

-maybe you think, that really will be the last time.
* Believing in the Easter bunny is a nice feeling too, but growing up and waking up will get you further in life

-maybe you have children, don't want to split up the family, or are scared they may be in danger if you do.
* Valid point, nothing to say about that. Apart from that the kids aren't blind and will know what is happening. Not a nice childhood me thinks (I can speak from experience .. there now you know where i'm coming from)

-maybe you are completely isolated and have no-one else for emotional support, other than the abuser.
* Well, you still got a brain and can think for yourself. You can always go to those shelters

-maybe you think violence in a relationship is normal.
* What can I say, then the damage was done a lot earlier than the first hit. Can't really comment on that.

-maybe the abuser is blackmailing you.
* A very good reason to run like f*** i think.

Everlasting argument mate, interesting but never ending. Let's agree to disagree, we all make our own choices in life, we all make our own luck and we create our own opportunities. If someone is weak that is hardly my fault .. I can't change weak people, that's something they have to deal with themselves. There are specialised organisations who deal with this, contact those.

I agree the wife beaters are always wrong, what happens after that we seem to disagree on. But let's say at least we all agree wife beaters are scum and leave it at that !

Edited by JollyStef (25 Mar 2005 10:08am)

finished

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Farawayeagle Sydney 25 Mar 05 10.08am
Quote reborn at 24 Mar 2005 1:21pm you're odd.... Quote Farawayeagle at 24 Mar 2005 11:41am Steff.....with points..... in a dress!! Mmmmmmm!! Your previous comment conjured up an interesting image, after I 'd had a few cold beers. Founder Of The Crystal Palace Roller Coaster Association An Affiliate Of The Never A Dull Moment Club R.I.P. DJ Hardline -- Gone Way Too Soon GKAS Member 54
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Farawayeagle

Sydney 25 Mar 05 10.08am