Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In | RSS Feed
leifandersonshair Newport 11 Apr 16 7.19pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Kingvagabond
I think the problem is the HMRC is a completely morally corrupt, inefficient and completely inept organisation who commit 'legal' harassment on a regular basis usually whilst acting on totally erroneous information based on their own mistakes and then are completely backed up by unfair tax collection laws unless you prove completely that it's them who have f***ed up, whilst they continue to pass your information onto violent debt collection agencies. All whilst making deals with multinational conglomerates to pay 1% of the amount they should be paying. To be fair, HMRC have been shafted as much as any other branch of the Civil Service by 'austerity'. They are in the position where, they only have a chance of getting anything from the little people. Better (from the governments point of view) to catch 100 'tax cheats' for the headlines which might yield, say, £100K in revenue, than go after a single corporation or individual who can afford lawyers and accountants to tie things up for years, even though HMRC might be able to claim back millions if successful. If the political will was there, a properly funded HMRC could go after the big fish. However, this government will never, ever back this. 'New Labour' didn't before them. The next government probably won't either. Who knows? If successive governments (over the last couple of decades, at the very least) had actually made an effort to close tax loopholes and shut evasion schemes, I suspect public finances would be in a much better state. Sadly, cutting public services will always be easier than going after your political donors for the tax they owe.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
phil19750 Sundridge Park 12 Apr 16 12.13pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Canterbury Palace
The fact that he opened his mouth to drink before he had even picked up his glass at about 1:28 has angered me more than it probably should. What a loathsome individual. Haha what an utter tool. His face at 2.53 is superb!
el burro sabe más que tú |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hoof Hearted 12 Apr 16 12.26pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Kingvagabond
See there's a thing about all this totally legal ergo not immoral stuff. Just because you canlegallydo something doesn't mean it is morally right. Tax planning is finding loopholes to be used to pay less tax than you might have to right? If you are intended to have to pay X amount of tax and instead pay Y is that not morally dubious? Especially, when generally screaming from the rooftops about so called benefits cheats. JL85's response.... A point that seem's totally lost on the right. They love a hard line approach, until it's aimed at them, then they scuttle back to the left.
Morality is fine, but it's too woolly a concept to nail someone down and that is why we have laws and a legal system to enforce the laws. You can't have a system that acts on which way the wind is blowing or if the judge is in a good mood. That's the sort of system Henry VIII was operating. Cameron's investments are/were acceptable according to law.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
-TUX- Alphabettispaghetti 12 Apr 16 12.42pm | |
---|---|
So to conclude: On the one hand we have those who are against those who wish to govern our country paying less than they should to the country they wish to govern, and on the other we have those that are for those who wish to govern our country paying less to the country that they wish to govern. Interesting.
Time to move forward together. |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Apr 16 12.47pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
JL85's response.... A point that seem's totally lost on the right. They love a hard line approach, until it's aimed at them, then they scuttle back to the left. Or vote for Corbyn
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Apr 16 12.51pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by susmik
Well said that man....... Dave has done nothing wrong or illegal. Except maybe use the Downing street press office to deceive the public and then stagger into a position of admitting deception. That's not illegal, but its probably wrong. I don't really have a problem with Cameron in this, and think its unfair to force only one person into this position, it should be all of the sitting MPs or none. Like the expenses scandal, this one is going to roll over people on all sides of the political spectrum.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hoof Hearted 12 Apr 16 12.57pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by -TUX-
So to conclude: On the one hand we have those who are against those who wish to govern our country paying less than they should to the country they wish to govern, and on the other we have those that are for those who wish to govern our country paying less to the country that they wish to govern. Interesting. Don't give up your day job if that is your conclusion... you won't make it to CID. What the discussions have concluded is that Cameron has done nothing wrong by investing in an overseas unit trust because the current laws allow any UK domiciled citizen to do so as long as you declare any dividend for income tax and any profit on sale for CGT purposes.... which he did and has been documented on his tax return. What the discussions have also concluded is that a handful of you somehow feel that what he's done is immoral but apart from shout obscenities at him and other wealthy folk have no real answer to making things better. Uninteresting.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Hoof Hearted 12 Apr 16 12.59pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by nickgusset
Or vote for Corbyn Yes indeed... but about as futile a gesture as rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic after it had struck the iceberg.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Apr 16 1.09pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
JL85's response.... A point that seem's totally lost on the right. They love a hard line approach, until it's aimed at them, then they scuttle back to the left.
Morality is fine, but it's too woolly a concept to nail someone down and that is why we have laws and a legal system to enforce the laws. You can't have a system that acts on which way the wind is blowing or if the judge is in a good mood. That's the sort of system Henry VIII was operating. Cameron's investments are/were acceptable according to law. I don't think I could afford to. I don't have parents capable of 200k gifts. The system is rigged, always has been, towards maintain the status quo, and increasingly towards the corporate state. But I also agree, the issue shouldn't be about morality, but law. We need to establish very clearly whether or not the practices of tax avoidance schemes fall within the bounds of UK laws or break them. Its a very grey area because these shelter schemes would be illegal in the UK, but aren't in their hosting nations. But I think some people are also of the view that these schemes are avoidance, they aren't, they're mostly untested in UK law. In other cases in the past, HMRC have won and lost cases against Tax Avoidance Schemes (resulting in tax being levied on those funds). People tend to forget as well that the 'spirit of the law' plays a much bigger role in civil matters, than criminal matters. They might not be criminal, but they may not be legitimate. We've already established that certain actions, even if legal abroad, committed abroad, are crimes in the UK. Edited by jamiemartin721 (12 Apr 2016 1.11pm)
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Apr 16 1.11pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Don't give up your day job if that is your conclusion... you won't make it to CID. What the discussions have concluded is that Cameron has done nothing wrong by investing in an overseas unit trust because the current laws allow any UK domiciled citizen to do so as long as you declare any dividend for income tax and any profit on sale for CGT purposes.... which he did and has been documented on his tax return. What the discussions have also concluded is that a handful of you somehow feel that what he's done is immoral but apart from shout obscenities at him and other wealthy folk have no real answer to making things better. Uninteresting. I suspect the media focus is on 'Dodgy Dave' who doesn't seem to have done anything dodgy, at present, because they don't want the focus to fall on themselves and their advertisers, because its not individuals that will be the big abusers of this, it will be Corporations and Multi-Nationals - who probably have broken the law.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Apr 16 1.14pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Don't give up your day job if that is your conclusion... you won't make it to CID. What the discussions have concluded is that Cameron has done nothing wrong by investing in an overseas unit trust because the current laws allow any UK domiciled citizen to do so as long as you declare any dividend for income tax and any profit on sale for CGT purposes.... which he did and has been documented on his tax return. What the discussions have also concluded is that a handful of you somehow feel that what he's done is immoral but apart from shout obscenities at him and other wealthy folk have no real answer to making things better. Uninteresting. Wrong and criminal, aren't necessarily the same thing mind. Arguably there is an ethical question regarding a PM who has talked seriously about reducing tax avoidance taking advantage of tax avoidance schemes - As it talks to their integrity, especially when they try to spin their way out of it. Then again, lets look a UK corporations and multinationals instead to begin with, because its much much easier for them to do this, and avoid paying massive amounts of taxation.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Apr 16 1.21pm | |
---|---|
Originally posted by Kingvagabond
See there's a thing about all this totally legal ergo not immoral stuff. Just because you canlegallydo something doesn't mean it is morally right. Tax planning is finding loopholes to be used to pay less tax than you might have to right? If you are intended to have to pay X amount of tax and instead pay Y is that not morally dubious? Especially, when generally screaming from the rooftops about so called benefits cheats. Its questionable in many of the examples from the Panama papers whether you can legally do this - A lot of its 'legality' is down to the obfuscation available in the 'Tax Shelter' countries own legislation and the capacity to know who exactly owners and beneficiaries of accounts and shell companies are. HMRC arguably would not have sufficient access to evidence gathering to pursue cases due to laws in shelter countries specifically targeting protection of the financial business. If they were in the UK, HMRC would only need probably cause to issue a warrant, to obtain the financial records - But as everything is in Panama, that isn't an option. Certainly, if you didn't declare the income or interest on your tax return, and benefited from it in the UK, then you have probably broken the law.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2023 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.