I get what you are saying and for many it makes sense. However If some politicians currently say that we didn't understand what we voted for in a binary referendum you can bet they or a Gina Miller figure will argue the same in court e.g. I voted to remain not leave with a deal or I voted to leave with no deal not leave with a deal etc. ad nauseam.

And you are correct on your first point any referendum that did not include Remain disenfranchises a huge section of the population and would negate the validity of the vote. Likewise a the option of a Corbyn deal or Remain would have the same impact on Leavers.

I think the option of another referendum wont work, better to have a GE then people can vote for whichever flavour they like.

But a Remain option immediately strips it of any sense of legitimacy because that option was offered and was rejected. Democracy does not give a loser a second chance before the winning option has been implemented.

You are still fixated on "winning" and "losing". Most of us have move passed such concepts. If the goal posts get moved before the ball reaches the goal line then no goal is scored. Democracy works in many ways, not just in the way you prefer.

On June 23rd I walked up to my polling station in absolute good faith that the result would be implemented. Yes, I accept that referendums are advisory but I also believe that given not only the Government promise that it would carry out the wishes of the people but that almost any and every other major political figure/grouping of the time was in full agreement with that stance then the result would be honoured. But more fool me. Not again. That stunt can be pulled just the once.

You want to allocate blame when it's actually no-one's fault. It is just a very unfortunate set of circumstances which has weakened our cohesion as a nation, caused division in families and raised people to extremes of view. No MP wanted that, but nor do they want us to do things which they believe will harm us unnecessarily.

A second referendum with Remain on the paper would be farcical and nothing more than the cause of even more bile and spite to pour out of people. Achieves nothing, especially when a GE would follow it anyway with Leave or Remain still firmly at the top of the issues being discussed and/or voted on.

If we are to have a second referendum then to included remain makes sense. Not because it would be a viable alternative, but because it could help the healing process. Please reflect on that.

We need a GE. A second referendum with Remain on the paper before that happens merely makes the divide deeper and heaps nothing but harm and pain on this country. Achieves nothing what so ever.

A GE in which one side "wins" and the other "loses" will likely make things even worse. We need a compromise so we can heal.

Edited by Matov (01 Oct 2019 8.47pm)

How on earth does 'Remain' help us heal? The whole point is that a second referendum with Remain as an option is going to unleash a tsunami of bile on top of what we already have. Because, and as much as you don't like to accept it, winning and losing are the entire point of elections. You vote, there is a winner and the loser has to bleed awhile then fight again. That is the whole point. I am fixated on notions such as winning and losing because without them, then nothing ever means anything in a democratic process. One single vote would have been sufficient for a victory to have been declared. (and I concede that the draw should have been declared for Remained because that was the status quo).

And campaigning for us to rejoin the EU a perfectly admirable and acceptable political ambition.

Leavers are the ones entitled to be angry at the moment. They were promised their votes would matter, Parliament passed the legislation and a date agreed. Which has passed. And with another date now looking a bit ropey as well. It is us Leavers who are the ones with every single right in the world to be utterly f***ed off with this state of affairs.

Remain LOST. That was it. The decision made and Leave with an absolute democratic mandate. There is no nuance around that or grey areas. Just basic maths. 52 trumps 48 as a percentage. Every single time.

A second referendum with Remain on it will be boycotted by people in their millions. It will be farcical. And lets assume Remain wins. What credibility does it actually have? Seriously. Why not a third referendum? After all really it is just a draw. And what if the winning amount of votes for Remain is less than 17.4 million people? Or a turn out under 50%?

Plus in the run-up who actually agrees to abide by it? Certainly not the Lib-Dems and certainly not the Tories. Leaving Labour. Beyond ludicrous.

Do you REALLY thinks any of that offers even the slightest hint of healing? No. It does the knees of the entire concept of democracy in a way that nothing else would have done in our history.

It's not a card game wissy.
This is real.
50% this and that.
Add one, take one away.
Until remain 'wins'
All a big set up.

How on earth does 'Remain' help us heal? The whole point is that a second referendum with Remain as an option is going to unleash a tsunami of bile on top of what we already have. Because, and as much as you don't like to accept it, winning and losing are the entire point of elections. You vote, there is a winner and the loser has to bleed awhile then fight again. That is the whole point. I am fixated on notions such as winning and losing because without them, then nothing ever means anything in a democratic process. One single vote would have been sufficient for a victory to have been declared. (and I concede that the draw should have been declared for Remained because that was the status quo).

And campaigning for us to rejoin the EU a perfectly admirable and acceptable political ambition.

Leavers are the ones entitled to be angry at the moment. They were promised their votes would matter, Parliament passed the legislation and a date agreed. Which has passed. And with another date now looking a bit ropey as well. It is us Leavers who are the ones with every single right in the world to be utterly f***ed off with this state of affairs.

Remain LOST. That was it. The decision made and Leave with an absolute democratic mandate. There is no nuance around that or grey areas. Just basic maths. 52 trumps 48 as a percentage. Every single time.

A second referendum with Remain on it will be boycotted by people in their millions. It will be farcical. And lets assume Remain wins. What credibility does it actually have? Seriously. Why not a third referendum? After all really it is just a draw. And what if the winning amount of votes for Remain is less than 17.4 million people? Or a turn out under 50%?

Plus in the run-up who actually agrees to abide by it? Certainly not the Lib-Dems and certainly not the Tories. Leaving Labour. Beyond ludicrous.

Do you REALLY thinks any of that offers even the slightest hint of healing? No. It does the knees of the entire concept of democracy in a way that nothing else would have done in our history.

Of course it isn't a card game.

The only one playing childish games with our future is Johnson with his games of bluff and blame. He is truly pathetic with his totally transparent bs. It's getting really embarrassing to watch and listen to others try to defend the completely indefensible.

This is really serious. Not for me or anyone of my age and in my position. But for my kids, grand kids and great grand kids. The future of my country depends on this and you think I regard it as a game?

I don't want anyone to win! I want Parliament to find a solution. That's their job. Not the government's. Parliament. It's government's job to do the negotiations in line with the requirements given to them by Parliament on our behalf. They don't appear to be doing that.